New Interchanges and Bypasses in MB / SK

[Spocket]

Yeah, that's the proposed design. Now, if we can just hold on for another 50 years or so, we'll have that thing built and ready to go just in time for flying cars.

[YWG-RO]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

Not sure if serious.....?

Is that 101 and 59N interchange even completed yet?

Given that it's *on* the Trans-Canada Highway, you also expect nearby intersections - *off* the Trans-Canada - to be replaced with interchanges too? At the same time?

The 101 and 59N interchange project does in fact explicitly lay the groundwork (PDF) for an interchange at 59N and 202.... but you insist that it be built at the same time?

Yes, I expected 59N/202 to be a diamond. Next to 101 and 100, this is the busiest stretch of highway in MB. There are proper service roads, and a Diamond here at 202 and at 213 would allow free flow of traffic south from 44. The Birds Hill Park interchange dates from late 60s. Awful to see millions on roadwork and traffic signals when another $20 M each will get proper and safer roads.

Another 50 years is optimistic. Missed opportunity for sure. MR. Schuler should have done better.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

Those bigger contractors usually won't be local. You don't get the votes if the money and jobs don't go into the local economy.

And while splitting it into two separate projects won't get taxpayers the best return on their investment, it'll get the current government the best return on *their* investment. Two interchanges next to each other won't get them more votes than one, but sending the extra money to a project in a different riding will.

By waiting for the current project to wrap up, they can announce and take credit for 59N/202 - as a new project - before the *next* election

The jobs and money would go into the local economy. As for the government getting more bang for the buck on "their" investment by splitting the work into two separate projects I don't think that would be the case. People aren't stupid and see through crap like that. Saving money, minimizing traffic congestion caused by the construction, increased safety within a few years instead of decades, etc. would impress voters much more than two separate projects that clearly should be one. Insulting voters is not a way to get them to vote for you.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Insulting voters is not a way to get them to vote for you.

I remember when I believed that....

The wake-up call was while campaigning for a family friend for MLA around St. Rose & Neepawa in 1994.

Understand, I wasn't going to vote NDP even though I was campaigning for them. But it was annoying to hear the same thing all day long, over and over and over and over:

"I'd vote NDP, but only the Conservatives are guaranteeing that the Jets will stay in Manitoba."

The Conservatives had also just handed 3/4 of a million dollars to a charity telemarketing firm to open a call center creating 100 jobs in Portage la Prairie. As expected - I had been programming for a competitor - they simply moved 10 sub-minimum-wage jobs from Winnipeg to Portage for a few months, then closed the office saying that they couldn't hire anyone.

[CoryB]

The Tories could open a nuclear waste dump for all of North America on the doorsteps of the town of Birds Hill and they would still be extremely loyal voters for the party.

Simply put if you had a pile of cash to burn and wanted to buy provincial votes burning in on south Perimeter improvements is going to have infinitely more return than building a diamond at 59/202.

[YWG-RO]

Valid point. ESP is traditionally NDP territory, but swung PC over past 35 years. NDP took the region in last federal election. They need south Winnipeg.

However, I will argue that improving 59N and 213 would also serve to improve access for Oakbank. Better to spend $40 M rather than $300 M on a new CPT extension with 101 interchange and bridge over Floodway.

[trebor204]

Roundabout proposed for intersection of Highway 2 & 3 in southwest of Winnipeg

http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.htm...ve=&item=43415

Plan

http://news.gov.mb.ca/asset_library/...ndabout-IT.pdf

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

However, I will argue that improving 59N and 213 would also serve to improve access for Oakbank. Better to spend $40 M rather than $300 M on a new CPT extension with 101 interchange and bridge over Floodway.

The challenge is 213 will never be a high speed route and sinking money into improvements at 59/213 won't change that. Those same improvements do absolutely nothing to address the extremely hazardous situation HYW 15 is in. The CPT extension is more about the aggregate of traffic moving between the whole RM of Springfield and east Winnipeg, not just Oak Bank to Winnipeg and back. HWY 15 is far more important a route that 213 which is just a provincial road and not a highway.

Honestly if it wasn't for the gravel/sand supporting Winnipeg's construction industry coming out of the 213 area it likely would not even warrant its current status. For additional perspective there was a weigh station with a permanently staffed office on 59N due to the importance of those gravel trucks moving back and forth between Winnipeg. Where else in the province has there ever been something like that?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The challenge is 213 will never be a high speed route and sinking money into improvements at 59/213 won't change that. Those same improvements do absolutely nothing to address the extremely hazardous situation HYW 15 is in. The CPT extension is more about the aggregate of traffic moving between the whole RM of Springfield and east Winnipeg, not just Oak Bank to Winnipeg and back. HWY 15 is far more important a route that 213 which is just a provincial road and not a highway.

Honestly if it wasn't for the gravel/sand supporting Winnipeg's construction industry coming out of the 213 area it likely would not even warrant its current status. For additional perspective there was a weigh station with a permanently staffed office on 59N due to the importance of those gravel trucks moving back and forth between Winnipeg. Where else in the province has there ever been something like that?

on your point about the gravel and sand pits: I have driven past the intersection at Garven Rd many times and it just seems to me like the vast majority of traffic isn't a dump truck. Let's just say it definitely gets enough traffic even without the gravel trucks to warrant the lights. It would make lots of sense to just address that and maybe upgrade some of the problem areas to see if that helps alleviate the traffic burden on 15.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The challenge is 213 will never be a high speed route and sinking money into improvements at 59/213 won't change that. Those same improvements do absolutely nothing to address the extremely hazardous situation HYW 15 is in. The CPT extension is more about the aggregate of traffic moving between the whole RM of Springfield and east Winnipeg, not just Oak Bank to Winnipeg and back. HWY 15 is far more important a route that 213 which is just a provincial road and not a highway.

Honestly if it wasn't for the gravel/sand supporting Winnipeg's construction industry coming out of the 213 area it likely would not even warrant its current status. For additional perspective there was a weigh station with a permanently staffed office on 59N due to the importance of those gravel trucks moving back and forth between Winnipeg. Where else in the province has there ever been something like that?

Where else in Manitoba..?
Highway 7 has one that’s permantly staffed for the quarries which are way busier then Garven road is.
Highway 1 west. Is permanently staffed.

The thing today is all those quarries have their own weigh scales. They are weighed before they even leave the quarry. And now transport Canada or DOT can pull out their mobile weigh scale pads anywhere at anytime.
Either way. Garven has way more residential traffic then it has commercial. And those lights are much needed. I’ve seen way to many accidents there.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by trebor204

Roundabout proposed for intersection of Highway 2 & 3 in southwest of Winnipeg

http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.htm...ve=&item=43415

Plan

http://news.gov.mb.ca/asset_library/...ndabout-IT.pdf

I use this intersection all the time pulling a trailer. This design seems way to small for the amount of semi traffic that uses this in the spring and fall. Rest of the year it’s fine. But wider circle would imo be a lot better.

Accidents will be high for a few years just out of stupidity though lol.

TBH I’d rather see lights here. It’s going to eventually be surrounded by homes anyway.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

It would make lots of sense to just address that and maybe upgrade some of the problem areas [on 213] to see if that helps alleviate the traffic burden on 15.

The problem is 213 travels through the sand hills in the area with many blind spots which limit passing and as a result the maximum speed is capped at 80 KM/H for most of the 206/59 stretch and there is nothing that can be done to fix that. The quarry operations in the area also mean that twinning 213 in place is not an option either as most of the required land mass no longer exists.

I guess if you really wanted to address the issue you could build two new lanes just to the north flattening out any of the remaining hills. You could then strip out the land mass under the existing route and rebuild it "in place".

Then you could expropriate all the properties between 207 and 59 with direct access to 207 that require that flat stretch to be a reduced speed zone.

That said, going to that extreme would far exceed the cost of the proposed Oak Bank corridor which has several proposed routes through flat ground that make sense.

Also addressing 213 between 59 and 206 still does nothing in terms of all the origin/destination traffic south of the town of Oak Bank as no one is going to bother with the stupid long detour over to 213. That is something the corridor route would address with a tail east of the town of Dugald to bring it back to the current HWY 15.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I use this intersection all the time pulling a trailer. This design seems way to small for the amount of semi traffic that uses this in the spring and fall. Rest of the year it’s fine. But wider circle would imo be a lot better.

Accidents will be high for a few years just out of stupidity though lol.

TBH I’d rather see lights here. It’s going to eventually be surrounded by homes anyway.

SK just opened a double roundabout diamond interchange at TCH and Balgonie east of Regina. The circles seem pretty tight and some super b's and farm equipment had some trouble initially. It services a large Flying J truck stop

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.47727...!3m1!1e3?hl=en

[optimusREIM]

Lol but does building a brand-new highway and bridge make sense for the 5 or so thousand people who live in oakbank?

[Dengler Avenue]

.(Sorry I mistook Oak Bank for Oakbluff.)

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Lol but does building a brand-new highway and bridge make sense for the 5 or so thousand people who live in oakbank?

FOr Cory it does. Damn all of the rest of Manitoba. Let’s expropriat peoples homes just so little OakBank can drive 90 Kms instead of 80.

[Hecate]

15 is dangerous and needs to be dealt with. It's not just 5000 people from oakbank that use it. There's also Dugald and Anola both of which are growing communities. There's also a lot of city folks who use it to get out to cabin country... it should have been dealt with properly from the beginning when they rebuilt the floodway bridge. but the goddamn NDP put up a three lane bridge to save money!?! Idiots

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Hecate

15 is dangerous and needs to be dealt with. It's not just 5000 people from oakbank that use it. There's also Dugald and Anola both of which are growing communities. There's also a lot of city folks who use it to get out to cabin country... it should have been dealt with properly from the beginning when they rebuilt the floodway bridge. but the goddamn NDP put up a three lane bridge to save money!?! Idiots

Yeah exactly. How much more would it theoretically have costed to make the damned thing 15 or 20 feet wider. It blows my mind how much foresight is lacking in terms of infrastructure in this province and that goes for both sides of the aisle.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

FOr Cory it does. Damn all of the rest of Manitoba. Let’s expropriat peoples homes just so little OakBank can drive 90 Kms instead of 80.

The corridor proposal actually goes back to the Filmon era and at the time had several routes through what was then almost entirely fields used for agricultural purposes. Sure they would be expropriation costs involved but that is partly why those routes were preferred v twinning HWY 15 in place. Twinning HWY 15 in place between 206 and 207 would require expropriation of a significant number of homes and other buildings regardless of if the new road north or south of the existing one.

HWY 15 is a serious issue with several of the most dangerous rail crossings in the province being just off that route. Relocating that route a couple miles north of its current location takes that issue mostly out of the picture. The 207 rail crossing would still be an issue but that is a separate thing.

Also the relocation would mean one interchange on the Perimeter instead of two so there is a huge cost savings right there. No way around it CPT/Gunn Rd is going to get grade separated at some point. If you relocate HWY 15 to the eastern side of that and continue on as the new corridor route the existing HWY 15 and Perimeter route could be turned into a simple fly over of the existing road and rail line instead of a highly complex interchange.

In terms of tax payer value for the dollar the Oak Bank corridor makes the most sense in solving all the issues that need to be addressed.

The best part of all this -- I am likely never going to again drive on 213. 15 or the corridor route.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The corridor proposal actually goes back to the Filmon era and at the time had several routes through what was then almost entirely fields used for agricultural purposes. Sure they would be expropriation costs involved but that is partly why those routes were preferred v twinning HWY 15 in place. Twinning HWY 15 in place between 206 and 207 would require expropriation of a significant number of homes and other buildings regardless of if the new road north or south of the existing one.

HWY 15 is a serious issue with several of the most dangerous rail crossings in the province being just off that route. Relocating that route a couple miles north of its current location takes that issue mostly out of the picture. The 207 rail crossing would still be an issue but that is a separate thing.

Also the relocation would mean one interchange on the Perimeter instead of two so there is a huge cost savings right there. No way around it CPT/Gunn Rd is going to get grade separated at some point. If you relocate HWY 15 to the eastern side of that and continue on as the new corridor route the existing HWY 15 and Perimeter route could be turned into a simple fly over of the existing road and rail line instead of a highly complex interchange.

In terms of tax payer value for the dollar the Oak Bank corridor makes the most sense in solving all the issues that need to be addressed.

The best part of all this -- I am likely never going to again drive on 213. 15 or the corridor route.

Cory Your OakBank corridor will not happen for 20years at best. It took 50 years for the province to just finish the perimeter.

The big ones now on the province are the entire south perimeter where the population has swelled more then anywhere else. This area also gets all the bedroom towns traffic to boot.
Next is the clusterfuck of Hwy 2 and 3. Which has nothing to do with Oakbluff and everything to do with Hwy 2 and 3. Five people dead on highway 3 last year. It serves traffic coming to Winnipeg from Morden and Winkler and Carmen and Sanford. That’s a lot of traffic. Trust me I drive it all the time.
Then highway 2 which serves countless towns all the way to highway 10 south of Brandon. These are MAJOR roads that just dump into Oakbluff. It dangerous for the town itself. And there needs to be an overpass at the perimeter for it which is in the books.
After that highway 6 is supposed to get some work with a diamond. Then St Knob bypass which would also incorporate art 90 cloverleaf.
Headingly bypass which is way more in the works then the pipe dream from the filmon era of OakBank corridor.
Then we have highway 1 and 16 that are desperate for a fix as that was also a multi death intersection last year.

So I’m sorry. But OakBank corridor is as far off as flying cars.