HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2009, 6:59 PM
CoolCzech's Avatar
CoolCzech CoolCzech is offline
Frigidus Maximus
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,617

renewnyc.com


It's striking how close Libeskind's placeholder for Number Two came to the actual design... In fact, even the actual FT design strongly echos Libeskind's concept of crystalline, angular design.
__________________
http://tinyurl.com/2acxb5t


I ❤️ NY
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2009, 12:29 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 40,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
It's striking how close Libeskind's placeholder for Number Two came to the actual design... In fact, even the actual FT design strongly echos Libeskind's concept of crystalline, angular design.
I think Libeskind's Freedom Tower design is actually closer to Tower 2, while his version of Tower 2 has more in common with Child's Freedom Tower. Libeskind's towers lacked any individual character.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2009, 6:44 AM
QuarterMileSidewalk's Avatar
QuarterMileSidewalk QuarterMileSidewalk is offline
Laissez-Faire Forever!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fontana, California
Posts: 340
Overall, I've been partial to the THINK group's designs; all three were creative and original, and, I felt, responded to the site with great sensitivity and care.

I always thought the United Architects design was extremely cool, but it was definitely a bit too "Blade Runner" for Ground Zero. I'd love to see it built here in LA somewhere, though.

I think Libeskind's original plan was beautiful enough. I'd have been ok if they'd built it exacly like that.

Foster's design just didn't appeal to me, for whatever reason. Maybe the shape, as others mentioned, just looked unstable (but of course it wouldn't really be).

As for Richard Meier's team's work, well that was just disappointing. You'd think the guy who designed the Getty Center could do better.

And SOM's design just SUCKED. It was interesting in and of itself, but there was no response to the site at all. Just ideology.

As for the current plan, I've always felt that Tower 2 is the best design of all four, and the final Freedom Tower design is the best of all the previous ones.

^Just my two cents...

Last edited by QuarterMileSidewalk; Mar 24, 2009 at 5:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2009, 10:52 PM
Krases's Avatar
Krases Krases is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,226
So I guess the developer of the new WTC is asking for 4 billion as a bailout.

I personally think that now is the best time to change the design. So far very little has been built above ground and the foundation can still be modified.

MSNBC also ran a little report about the idea of rebuilding the old towers with more advanced and sturdy construction techniques. I don't really like that idea because I think we need a new design. I especially would like it all to be one site instead of crisscrossing it with all new streets.
__________________
There are many things money can buy. But one thing money can't buy is your momma, she's for free and everyone knows it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 5:37 AM
QuarterMileSidewalk's Avatar
QuarterMileSidewalk QuarterMileSidewalk is offline
Laissez-Faire Forever!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fontana, California
Posts: 340
^the reason they're putting the old streets back, where they can, is because the OWTC's "superblock" was deeply dysfunctional urban planning. It was the same rationale that led to the massive housing projects in the 40's, 50's and 60's, based on Corbusian "tower in a park" ideals, which just aren't conducive to street life. The old WTC's plaza was often windy and lifeless for much of its existence, since it was removed from the street and generally offered no really compelling destinations for the tens of thousands of workers.

As for your notion that "now is the best time to change the design," Freedom Tower's foundations are nearly finished, and steel is already rising a hundred feet above street level. So that tower is going up, as is, barring a complete financial and social meltdown. But I suppose the other three are available... I just wonder what it is, specifically, that you don't like, or would change, about the current designs?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2009, 3:40 PM
Krases's Avatar
Krases Krases is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterMileSidewalk View Post
^the reason they're putting the old streets back, where they can, is because the OWTC's "superblock" was deeply dysfunctional urban planning. It was the same rationale that led to the massive housing projects in the 40's, 50's and 60's, based on Corbusian "tower in a park" ideals, which just aren't conducive to street life. The old WTC's plaza was often windy and lifeless for much of its existence, since it was removed from the street and generally offered no really compelling destinations for the tens of thousands of workers.

As for your notion that "now is the best time to change the design," Freedom Tower's foundations are nearly finished, and steel is already rising a hundred feet above street level. So that tower is going up, as is, barring a complete financial and social meltdown. But I suppose the other three are available... I just wonder what it is, specifically, that you don't like, or would change, about the current designs?
Well part of that reason was because there was nothing to do there. It was just a largely empty plaza. Perhaps something like this would be better to have as a pedestrian only super block:


(Picture from VTAT)


I know the pic is small but it gives a rough idea of what I think the area should look like. I would also like to see two towers instead of just one tower and they should both be significantly taller than the current planned tower. It would be a tight squeeze on the site area, but thats why the planned WTC towers 3 and 4 could be moved around to make new room. I like the new WTC 2 tower. I also like the memorial but I think the new ground structure portrayed in that picture could be pressed up close to the edge with a sort of stone boardwalk between the waterfalls and patios for restaurants.

The basic objective is to make the place exciting and lively while also preserving the memorial site plan and building it all bigger.

Now may not be the best time to modify the site, that was a poor choice of words. I should have said now is the last time to modify the site.
__________________
There are many things money can buy. But one thing money can't buy is your momma, she's for free and everyone knows it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 5:53 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 40,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krases View Post
Well part of that reason was because there was nothing to do there. It was just a largely empty plaza. Perhaps something like this would be better to have as a pedestrian only super block:
The superblock idea is just not a good one, particularly for an urban, street oriented environment like Manhattan.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2009, 4:02 AM
Jobohimself Jobohimself is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 161
I find the new design for Tower One to be inspired by fear, thus ugly.

I like 2WTC and 3WTC though.
__________________
San Diego: The epitome of poor urban planning.
Visit the city of fleas! http://las-pulgas.myminicity.com/
http://las-pulgas.myminicity.com/ind
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2009, 6:11 AM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is offline
Desert Dweller
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,610
Well I'm no big fan of it, but thats what we are getting so let it be. I prefer Libeskind's design, it was so futuristic and I felt it really did well using the site. It would have been interesting to see how the Sky Gardens turned out, the other towers were very dramatic and ah, I loved it. Overall I prefer the harmony of Libeskind's original design.



Once Libeskind's design was altered, the other towers became very plain and less dramatic, so blah, although the birdcage tower, I love it, the shape is so attractive, the only thing I wasnt crazy about was that it was only 76 floors, blah, but the rest of the tower was very 21st Century. I wouldn't mind seeing the revised version built, but if I were to pick between this version and the current version, I couldn't pick.



But I guess what we are getting isn't so bad, my only problem is that the towers don't really go together and all seem to try and stand out instead of harmonizing. Another problem I have is that 1WTC, 3WTC, and 4WTC are all really plain, I like them all, but i'd prefer to see them as individual projects in NYC, but this is the World Trade Center, I'd like to see some more dramatic towers, 2WTC is the only daring design in my opinion.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2009, 12:16 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 40,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post


Once Libeskind's design was altered, the other towers became very plain and less dramatic, so blah, although the birdcage tower, I love it, the shape is so attractive, the only thing I wasnt crazy about was that it was only 76 floors, blah, but the rest of the tower was very 21st Century. I wouldn't mind seeing the revised version built, but if I were to pick between this version and the current version, I couldn't pick.
I like that the new WTC towers are more distinctive. Unless we were going to get twins again, I don't think the towers should have resembled each other as much as the Libeskind towers would have...



My only problem is what will go between the Freedom Tower, and tower 2. It's planned as a performing arts center designed by Frank Gehry, but that's years down the line. I think if the PAC goes forward, they should put the (what was planned) hotel space above it. That would eliminate some of the openness around the Freedom Tower.

__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2009, 4:32 PM
Krases's Avatar
Krases Krases is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
It's planned as a performing arts center designed by Frank Gehry, but that's years down the line.
Imagine if Ghery had designed the entire WTC site.

We at least know you could easily see it from a distance in the daylight.
__________________
There are many things money can buy. But one thing money can't buy is your momma, she's for free and everyone knows it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 2:15 AM
Aleks's Avatar
Aleks Aleks is offline
cookies, skittles & milk
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 6,257
Any renderings of the PAC?

I never liked any of the previous designs. I love the current WTC plan! The towers each have their own 'spotlight' which creates variety around the site. The way they're laid out is perfect!

The Freedom Tower has an amazing design imo! It's very classy, simple, has an overpowering feeling to it and looks very sleep from some angles.

2WTC is pretty cool too. I love the shape, very different from many American skyscrapers. The only thing I don't like is that the solid black trading floors were removed. I really liked the way it separated the tower's sections.

3WTC looks better than 2WTC in my opinion. It's also very different from something that would be built in America. I could see it in Hong Kong or Shanghai. It's an amazing design! The exposed steel creates details for the entire site which the Freedom Tower and 2WTC lack.

Tower 4 looks pretty good imo. I love the simplicity of it and it looks like a cousin of 7WTC. I really don't get why people hate on it so much. It's an amazing tower. It helps to balance the hard, heavy metals of Tower 3. The facade will create some amazing reflections of nearby buildings! And like the Freedom Tower, it has a powerful presence which says, "I'm here".

Overall I'm pretty happy with our current plan. The towers balance each other out. The only problem I have is the memorial. I still feel like something better could've been done. The fountains are amazing but the plaza/park could use more. Maybe a small building or something.
__________________
...the greatness of victor is equally proportionate to the skill and obduracy of foe...
-Kostof-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2009, 2:44 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Skyscraper Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 7,926
I would have liked 2 Freedom Towers, but one without the antennae.
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted May 31, 2009, 10:30 PM
THE BIG APPLE's Avatar
THE BIG APPLE THE BIG APPLE is offline
Khurram Parvaz
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 2,424
I rather have the twin towers rebuilt. The memorial will cost over a billion dollars to get built, and $50 million to run yearly. The current plan needs public dollars to pay for the complex.

I have never liked the Freedom Tower, and have always been in favor of twin towers by Kenneth Gardner.

http://www.twintowersalliance.com/"]http://www.twintowersalliance.com/"]http://www.twintowersalliance.com/

http://www.triroc.com/wtc/"]http://www.triroc.com/wtc/"]http://www.triroc.com/wtc/

Last edited by THE BIG APPLE; Jun 2, 2009 at 11:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2009, 9:45 PM
Zerton's Avatar
Zerton Zerton is offline
Ω
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,291
^ that design is awful. It takes away the only thing the WTC had going for it (the Gothic motifs) and makes it look like a suburban office park.
__________________
If all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. -Orwell
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 2:40 AM
Krases's Avatar
Krases Krases is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,226
I think the original WTC was awful in design. So incredibly ugly. But because it stands for so much emotionally due to the way it was brought down, it kinda has this aura about it.

Given the choice, I would like to see one single larger tower instead of two identical towers in its place. This large tower could be 200+ stories tall and obviously very stylish in design. The current tower isn't that bad, but to me it lacks scale and size.
__________________
There are many things money can buy. But one thing money can't buy is your momma, she's for free and everyone knows it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2009, 4:07 AM
vandelay vandelay is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 860
The current plan is fine. The way I see it, there was simply no chance that anything great would come out of the process, between the politicians, the architects, the public, and the 9/11 families.

I wish the original Childs 1WTC (let's stop calling it the Freedom Tower, another artifact of the sad political state at the time) was built, but the current 1WTC at least pays homage to the original towers. A problem with the current plan is the problem with 'starchitecture,' particularly the Rogers and Foster towers are very individualistic and meant to stand out, they don't integrate well together. There is no dialogue between the towers, just clashing. Which is why the Maki building looks better and better to me as time goes by, it suits the site and follows the lead of 1WTC.

That said, the Libeskind master plan was awful, thank goodness he was pushed aside. Who can we thank? Silverstein? Imagine a deconstructivist WTC, a constant reminder of the shambles and wreckage of 9/11 full of jutting sharp edges and nothing that says "This is New York." The twin towers may have been architecturally poor, but they were reassuring giants, visual anchors, but almost elegant and serene. The current 1WTC may have that same effect.

Of course I wouldn't mind if they rebuilt the Singer Building and a mini old Penn Station for the transit hub on Ground Zero. That's atonement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 12:52 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 40,521
A base comparison from wforan21

(not the original, but very similar)

__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 8:34 PM
Lecom's Avatar
Lecom Lecom is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 12,703
United Architects plan was brilliant. As for anything else, I'd rather take the current design.

The design could've turned out so much worse.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 10:53 PM
Duffstuff129's Avatar
Duffstuff129 Duffstuff129 is offline
Charismatic Stallion
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecom View Post
United Architects plan was brilliant. As for anything else, I'd rather take the current design.

The design could've turned out so much worse.
Surely you don't mean this?



It looks like a bunch of sticks with a tarp draped over it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:04 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.