NHL season 2017/2018

[rotten42]

I saw this in another place but it is appropriate. Edmonton Oiler fans are the Al Bundy of the NHL talking about the 5 touchdowns in one game back in high school.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

We can agree to disagree. Relegation by default will work quite well to combat tanking.

The only reason relegation won't work in North America is because the fat cat owners wouldn't stand for it.

It works perfectly well in every other sport and jurisdiction on the planet.

The salary cap/luxury tax and other forms of payroll limitations have done way more for parity than the draft order.

How exactly do you enforce a salary cap with relegation? Next year the Buffalo Sabres take their $70 million payroll and compete against the Toledo Walleyes? Or the players all have their salaries shredded by 90% to fit in the new league?

Relegation doesn't work within the existing framework of North American sports. The chasm that exists between the lowest NHL team and the highest ranked affiliate in terms of skill, stadium size, attendance, etc. is beyond anything in European soccer.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

We can agree to disagree. Relegation by default will work quite well to combat tanking.

The only reason relegation won't work in North America is because the fat cat owners wouldn't stand for it.

It works perfectly well in every other sport and jurisdiction on the planet.

The salary cap/luxury tax and other forms of payroll limitations have done way more for parity than the draft order.

The best way for a franchise to rebound is not the salary cap but being fortunate enough to get a franchise player or two through the draft. Think the current version of the Maple Leafs. How would relegation help such a team? It just makes a bad situation worse. Yeah, so they get demoted to the AHL and then rebound the following season to the NHL where they are no better or worse than before relegation.

As suburbanite pointed out, the chasm between major league sports and the next level down is so huge that relegation would not work in North America. Furthermore, how would farm team systems continue to function? North American sports work totally different from Europe.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

As a Leaf fan I can relate, at least they are hanging on to the 80's our best teams were in black and white.

Yeah and nobody is left alive to fill your upper management with lol.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The best way for a franchise to rebound is not the salary cap but being fortunate enough to get a franchise player or two through the draft.

The Oilers are proof that this doesn't work. Drafting generational players definitely helps, but like Craig Button said a couple weeks ago, you can't build a team one player at a time. You need depth across your team, and a good coach with good systems that the players all buy into. You have to draft well, but acquiring talented players through free agent signings and trades is just as important.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As suburbanite pointed out, the chasm between major league sports and the next level down is so huge that relegation would not work in North America. Furthermore, how would farm team systems continue to function? North American sports work totally different from Europe.

Cut the NHL to ~20 teams. Problem solved.

The argument you are making against relegation in North America could be used to abolish it Europe.

You'd have to figure out the salary cap, player development/entry draft and how to handle farm teams.

The teams in the top league would be there because they are the best teams around. Not because some fat cat owner ponied up the league fee. It would be a transition to a performance based system.

[suburbanite]

Ya, Bettman is going to instantly shave billions off the value of the league that he's been building up for 25 years to solve a problem that affects 1-4 teams every year.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Ya, Bettman is going to instantly shave billions off the value of the league that he's been building up for 25 years to solve a problem that affects 1-4 teams every year.

lol, pretty much. Relegation would help motivate some of the perennially bad franchises to sort their shit out, but would require renegotiating the entire structure of the league, and seeing how hard it is to get a new CBA every few years, this would probably cancel multiple seasons.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^I'm all for it. It would mean that places like Quebec, Kansas City, Hamilton could all get franchises. Maybe not in the top tier to start, but second tier. The concept would help grow the game infinitely more than what it is now and add a lot of drama to the end of seasons. And, who wouldn't pay to see a game where your least favourite team is playing to not get relegated at the end of the season.

But we all know it won't happen. More than likely the next lockout in 2022 is probably a full season anyway.

[HomeInMyShoes]

For curiosity's sake I looked at List of Premier League Stadiums and the difference in size is enormous: 90,000 to 11,400 capacity. Granted, 90,000 is very high, most are 45 - 60, but there's a bunch in the sub 20,000 range. Which would be the equivalent of 18,000 to about 8,000 or even 6,000. The Regina Pats playing in the NHL.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Ya, Bettman is going to instantly shave billions off the value of the league that he's been building up for 25 years to solve a problem that affects 1-4 teams every year.

It's not Bettman's decision - it's the decision of the owners. Their answer would be the same. Bettman is only a spokesperson.

The NHL is not structurally built for relegation/promotion. The CHL, on the other hand, could be turned into relegation in tandem with Jr. A leagues regionally. I would thoroughly enjoy the implementation of pro/rel but it'll never happen with the NHL.

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

For curiosity's sake I looked at List of Premier League Stadiums and the difference in size is enormous: 90,000 to 11,400 capacity. Granted, 90,000 is very high, most are 45 - 60, but there's a bunch in the sub 20,000 range. Which would be the equivalent of 18,000 to about 8,000 or even 6,000. The Regina Pats playing in the NHL.

It's a good thing stadium capacity isn't a requirement for playing in the EPL. Stadium capacity isn't really a great indicator of anything, really.

Originally Posted by suburbanite

How exactly do you enforce a salary cap with relegation?

You'd have to remove the salary cap entirely. Buffalo's loss in revenue from leaving the NHL would have to be replaced by selling players. Oh, NHL teams would have to be able to transfer players for $$$. Buffalo would, theoretically, receive a parachute TV payment for exiting the NHL (similar to EPL).

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Relegation doesn't work within the existing framework of North American sports. The chasm that exists between the lowest NHL team and the highest ranked affiliate in terms of skill, stadium size, attendance, etc. is beyond anything in European soccer.

Indeed, because it's an entirely different system altogether. We can all sit around and dream about the Hershey Bears replacing the Buffalo Sabres or some such, but it'll never happen with any of the current major NA leagues. People who want to have an NHL team in their favourite city will have to deal with not having one. You're not allowed in the club for x reasons. Welcome to NA franchise sports

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by rotten42

I saw this in another place but it is appropriate. Edmonton Oiler fans are the Al Bundy of the NHL talking about the 5 touchdowns in one game back in high school.

It was 4 touchdowns, not 5...

[GlassCity]

Promotion/relegation in sports would be my dream. That way every city's fans get to care about their teams, cause they're in the same broader "league" as the big boys. You could live in Medicine Hat and cheer on your 3rd league team because they technically have a shot at moving up, instead of having to cheer for a team all the way in Calgary.

It's too bad it makes absolutely no business sense.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Oh Oilers. Racking up those points with that weaker second half schedule.

Losing to Florida was a genius lottery move though.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

For curiosity's sake I looked at List of Premier League Stadiums and the difference in size is enormous: 90,000 to 11,400 capacity. Granted, 90,000 is very high, most are 45 - 60, but there's a bunch in the sub 20,000 range. Which would be the equivalent of 18,000 to about 8,000 or even 6,000. The Regina Pats playing in the NHL.

Hmm, Regina Pats versus Edmonton Oilers - who would you place money on?

[HomeInMyShoes]

Pats. Every day of the week. Unfortunately it looks like the Pats are not going to make it as WHL champion despite some very high expectations for a stellar year. I wonder how attendance will be affected at the Memorial Cup if the Warriors end up being the WHL representative. No one hates the Warriors more than the city of Regina.

[TorontoDrew]

Beating the number one team in our division and the league last night felt great.

[Coldrsx]

What a frustrating team these Oilers be. No cohesiveness, poor D.

[TorontoDrew]

Must be frustrating. This was meant to be your year and the time is staring to run out for you guys. You only have 27 games left in the regular season.

[Calgarian]

Sounds like Mike Smith will only miss a couple games, much relief!