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View Poll Results: Should Turks and Caicos join Canada?
Yes 58 69.05%
No 26 30.95%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 6:43 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nite View Post
So some saying we should replace the people of TandC with the Chinese because they will be more productive does not denigrate the people of Turks and Caicos?
The only person who said that was joking... and that one person is in fact your fellow self-proclaimed mind-reader, and rabid anti-racist crusader, CivicBlues.

So let's all shun this racist participant CivicBlues away from the thread...? and then maybe you can leave too...?
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  #122  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 6:47 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Clandestine unmediated migration patterns do not generally follow the obvious logic, as in people don't stop their migration as soon as they're in a country that's richer or safer than they're own.

Think of the thousands of migrants massed at Calais in France waiting to cross the English Channel to the UK...
Also, T&C is a tiny island, a fact that's known to Haitians. The halfdecent GDP per capita would drop very quickly if many refugees went there and stayed there (which they would, as the place is a dead end; it doesn't "communicate" with the UK as a full internal territory).

If T&C was part of Canada, the place would not be a dead end so that would be entirely different.

A fixed number of X Haitian refugees in T&C might overwhelm the local system and then everyone's going to be visibly worse off (the refugees likely first and foremost), while that same fixed number of X Haitian refugees ending up in Toronto and Montreal via 'Canadian T&C' would not overwhelm the system that much - it's propped up by a much larger and richer pool of taxpayers - and therefore the Haitian refugees would get much better, reliable, and lasting benefits.
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  #123  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 6:53 PM
Maldive Maldive is offline
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So much crap posted but free forum.

For 30 years T&C has reached out to Canada. Probably because we’re cold sometimes. Good strategy but maybe there’s more to it. More on that.

Not sure but I think only a third of the islands are populated (50,000 people total?).

This is not a welfare play IMO so it’s curious. Heck if we signed a deal and everyone there went on the dole, it’s just a couple of major plant closings. Tourism dollars would mitigate.

But with few hands they have been busy building their economy, infrastructure (tourists of course) and turned unattractive topography into paradise on a portion of the islands. Their balance sheet ain’t bad at all.

I won’t bore you with the perfect weather and every caribbean water dream because that’s a given (hurricanes aside). But that’s what they are offering of course.

Racism: go away, stupid

Revenue to TC: the west won’t go there but imagine the millions of central/east Cnd dollars that might be redirected here. Instead of Florida? Yep.

I will go there one day, can’t wait. I think they are wise to offer winter warmth and I think this is an easy fix for a cold country. And I think we’d be welcome. And hopefully we could give them something enduring, positive in return.

Politics: maybe hopeless

Vote yes (third time).
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  #124  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 8:43 PM
shreddog shreddog is offline
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I'm wondering how many people here have actually been to T&C? While I have never been to Turks, since 1994 I've been to the Caicos 7 times - 5 at Provo and twice at "North".

I won't bore anyone with details that can be found easily online, but I truly am at a loss as to why a place that has built it's economy around being a tax haven and a "rec home for the rich" (check out Parrot key) would want Canada?? Most the tourists there seem to be from the US or Europe, most of the shops carry UK or US branded products and most of the second homes there appear to belong rich Yanks/Brits. Other than ex-pat or tourist Canadians, I don't think I've ever heard a "local" talk about joining Canada.

IMHO maybe this idea had merit back in 1917, but not a hundred years later.

PS. And while there is massive income disparity, it's not because the "poor" are destitute, but rather that the rich are SOOOOOOO rich.
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  #125  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maldive View Post
So much crap posted but free forum.
...
Yes, there is. I suggest you travel there and see it for yourself. While I'm not a huge fan of conch (kinda bland) I could spend a long time there and be happy, but T&C will never join Canada.


Hmmm, maybe Canada should ask T&C if we can join them!
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  #126  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 8:59 PM
shreddog shreddog is offline
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FWIW, It appears that the good folks in T&C are already managing their "illegal Haitian migrant" problem quite well, thank you very much!
Quote:
Three illegal sloop landings missed by radar station in 12 days

OVER the course of 12 days, three sloops carrying illegal migrants from Haiti have landed undetected by radar on the shores of three separate islands in the Turks and Caicos Islands.
...
Officers eventually captured 187 men and women and detained them, pending repatriation to Haiti.
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  #127  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 9:08 PM
CivicBlues CivicBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It's a demonstrated, established fact that tons of Haitians recently wanted to reach that place pictured above so badly that they were even willing to break the law to get there.

What's your point? That there's snow here in winter...? Thanks for the news...
Those were Haitian Nationals residing in the US already. They only tried to cross into Canada after Trump said nuh uh to extending their temporary status and Trudeau said come hither.

I highly doubt a flotilla of destitute Haitians will be setting sail for Halifax anytime soon or gunning for Canada when they escape to a neighboring island to escape their abject poverty.
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  #128  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 10:11 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
Those were Haitian Nationals residing in the US already. They only tried to cross into Canada after Trump said nuh uh to extending their temporary status and Trudeau said come hither.
Well, that's pretty much exactly what I said: when faced with the possibility of being sent back to Haiti, large numbers of Haitians decided to take their chances on an illegal trek in order to try to reach the winter wasteland you posted a pic of, because the alternative was Haiti. Thus demonstrating that Canada is such a nice place to be compared to Haiti that to many people it's worth jumping through hoops, breaking laws, and enduring moderate suffering to try to get there.
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  #129  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 10:15 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
I highly doubt a flotilla of destitute Haitians will be setting sail for Halifax anytime soon or gunning for Canada when they escape to a neighboring island to escape their abject poverty.
They don't need to reach the Canadian mainland, what matters to everybody (both us and them) is that their refugee "perks" would then be proportional to the budgets of coffers from Ottawa (backed by ~40 million taxpayers who are wealthy on average by global standards).

Whether or not they stay in T&C then, or go to Halifax, or anywhere else, they'll still be on Canadian soil, and costing Canadians.
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  #130  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 10:24 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I would add that while there is obviously some racism against Haitians in Montreal and Quebec, in general they are well-liked both individually and collectively.

They're considered among the top immigrant groups I would say in terms of their ability and eagerness to fit in and adapt.
That's very true and I want to insist that I'm far from anti-Haitian (I am sure there are people out there who have decided I was; on this forum the bar for jumping to conclusions often seems extraordinarily low.)

FWIW, something that I suspect even you didn't yet know is that for the past few years I've had Haitian relatives (in law), one of my closest cousins being married to a Haitian-Montrealer.

In fact they have a kid now, so I'm even related by blood to Haitians (i.e. I have a reasonably close blood relative who is half-Haitian).

If I die childless, which I currently am (though I don't plan on dying anytime soon), maybe I'll name that little guy my heir to prove a point (previously, I intended everything I own to be passed down to Miss Meow and Princess Purr, until I eventually have actual human kids.)
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  #131  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 11:21 AM
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Okay, things have changed since the last time I heard about this (I'm a child of the 80's. First time this came up, to my knowledge, was in the 80's)

At that time it was the T and C that wanted to join confederation. It was rejected outright by the government and was rejected every other time it's come up. I'm guessing because it's just an expense as far as the government is concerned.

Now, if the GDP of the T and C is up to approximately $30,000, well, that makes it far more beneficial for Canada. Unfortunately, the actual GDP is roughly half that of Canada, well, according to the UN, anyway. So it may be better than China (sort of) it's also still definitely a fair bit lower than Canada. In fact, with unemployment significantly higher than the Canadian average, infrastructure far less complete, standards much lower, and a considerably higher poverty rate, I'd hardly call it a bargain to incorporate them. Frankly, that definitely goes for Greece, by the way, which I'd be even more unlikely to want to incorporate into Canada. I'm far more amenable to the idea of the T and C islands being folded into confederation. Don't use the juvenile tactic of "oh...you just want to cover your tracks so that we can't see your racism" crap, either. That's just standard SJW rhetoric and people are tired of hearing about how every time they disagree with an SJW, they must be a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, whateveryoucanthinkof-ic.

When the T and C islands are nearing Canadian quality of life, display a huge willingness to integrate into Canadian culture by moving to the cold, northern motherland, and don't require a huge commitment of resources to bring to Canadian standards then I'll be all for it.

Of course, it bears mentioning that I'm not hearing the T and C islands clamoring to get accepted into Canada anymore now that things are going so well there. That kinda tells me everything I need to know.
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  #132  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 12:47 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Okay, things have changed since the last time I heard about this (I'm a child of the 80's. First time this came up, to my knowledge, was in the 80's)

At that time it was the T and C that wanted to join confederation. It was rejected outright by the government and was rejected every other time it's come up. I'm guessing because it's just an expense as far as the government is concerned.

Now, if the GDP of the T and C is up to approximately $30,000, well, that makes it far more beneficial for Canada. Unfortunately, the actual GDP is roughly half that of Canada, well, according to the UN, anyway. So it may be better than China (sort of) it's also still definitely a fair bit lower than Canada. In fact, with unemployment significantly higher than the Canadian average, infrastructure far less complete, standards much lower, and a considerably higher poverty rate, I'd hardly call it a bargain to incorporate them. Frankly, that definitely goes for Greece, by the way, which I'd be even more unlikely to want to incorporate into Canada. I'm far more amenable to the idea of the T and C islands being folded into confederation. Don't use the juvenile tactic of "oh...you just want to cover your tracks so that we can't see your racism" crap, either. That's just standard SJW rhetoric and people are tired of hearing about how every time they disagree with an SJW, they must be a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, whateveryoucanthinkof-ic.

When the T and C islands are nearing Canadian quality of life, display a huge willingness to integrate into Canadian culture by moving to the cold, northern motherland, and don't require a huge commitment of resources to bring to Canadian standards then I'll be all for it.

Of course, it bears mentioning that I'm not hearing the T and C islands clamoring to get accepted into Canada anymore now that things are going so well there. That kinda tells me everything I need to know.
Was it “T&C” or just some random people in T&C who floated the idea of joining Canada? I thought it was the latter.
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  #133  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 1:39 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Was it “T&C” or just some random people in T&C who floated the idea of joining Canada? I thought it was the latter.
There has never been a formal proposal.
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