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  #6441  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:05 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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I'm all in favor of encouraging safety and responsibility for scooter riders and minimizing to the extent possible accidents and injuries. I've ridden the scooters a lot of times and it doesn't take much to follow the rules of the road, pay attention, and ride safely. I see people often riding in bike lanes and sidewalks in the wrong direction--against traffic. I suspect ticketing those people would help create more established norms on how to ride the scooters.

I will say, however, that that sort of breathless reporting from that ABC 15 article ("The scooters quickly accelerate and hit speeds that routinely exceed 15 mph"--gasp!) frustrates me. I get that scooters are a hot topic and will get the clicks, but in a state that hit more than 100,000 motor vehicle crashes and more than 1,000 motor vehicle fatalities (a quarter of which are pedestrians) in 2017, I don't think our priority is the 29 monthly service calls for injuries arising from the fun, mostly harmless electric scooters.
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  #6442  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 3:24 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
No loops. They would just be transfer points. This would be a first for Phoenix light rail which right now requires no transfer points since everything is on 1 spline.
Correct! Only for transfer passengers. If you get off light rail on Central Ave and walk over there to Washington St or Jefferson St.
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  #6443  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:30 AM
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TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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Lime says it is pulling its electric scooters from Tempe
Feb 11, 2019 By: Josh Frigerio/ABC15
Quote:
TEMPE, AZ — Lime is pulling its electric scooters from Tempe saying the city's newly-adopted regulations and fees are too costly and put too much liability on the company.
So how bad are those regs and fees?
Quote:
In January, Tempe passed a licensee agreement for e-scooter and e-bike companies, that requires a $7,888 application fee, a "right of way use fee" of $1.06 per vehicle per day, and a $100 relocation fee.
Yikes: this is beginning to smell like a hula hoop fad.
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  #6444  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:21 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Lime says it is pulling its electric scooters from Tempe
Feb 11, 2019 By: Josh Frigerio/ABC15

So how bad are those regs and fees?

Yikes: this is beginning to smell like a hula hoop fad.
The fees are pretty onerous--they are apparently 20% higher than Los Angeles's fees. And the big kicker is the indemnification, which requires scooter companies to indemnify Tempe even for Tempe's own negligence. It's disappointing that Tempe's response so far seems to just be doubling down.
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  #6445  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 7:15 PM
Mr.RE Mr.RE is offline
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Originally Posted by muertecaza View Post
The fees are pretty onerous--they are apparently 20% higher than Los Angeles's fees. And the big kicker is the indemnification, which requires scooter companies to indemnify Tempe even for Tempe's own negligence. It's disappointing that Tempe's response so far seems to just be doubling down.
Gotta fund the streetcar project somehow, right?

In all seriousness, I agree their fees are high. However, I guess that's their price justification for the added risk the scooters pose to their residents based on their track record thus far. Tempe is the place for these type of companies, I am sure some type of agreement will be reached as both sides are experiencing some growing pains.
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  #6446  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 9:34 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr.RE View Post
Gotta fund the streetcar project somehow, right?

In all seriousness, I agree their fees are high. However, I guess that's their price justification for the added risk the scooters pose to their residents based on their track record thus far. Tempe is the place for these type of companies, I am sure some type of agreement will be reached as both sides are experiencing some growing pains.
All about leverage. If 3 companies are operating in Tempe, then Tempe has leverage to work with the one(s) where they are protected. Smart play by Tempe. They know they have one of the most attractive markets in the country. Forget LA. Tempe has a massive campus of the exact target demographic. They can command more than LA. Plus the campus is a fairly small confined area which means it's more efficient for these companies to operate (vs. say all of downtown LA).

Really there are way too many scooters around Tempe anyways. Only 1-2 of the companies should be operating with the dozens of idle scooters on ever corner.
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  #6447  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 10:43 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
All about leverage. If 3 companies are operating in Tempe, then Tempe has leverage to work with the one(s) where they are protected. Smart play by Tempe. They know they have one of the most attractive markets in the country. Forget LA. Tempe has a massive campus of the exact target demographic. They can command more than LA. Plus the campus is a fairly small confined area which means it's more efficient for these companies to operate (vs. say all of downtown LA).

Really there are way too many scooters around Tempe anyways. Only 1-2 of the companies should be operating with the dozens of idle scooters on ever corner.
We'll see how it shakes out. But I personally wouldn't be as enthusiastic about what would essentially be a government-granted monopoly (weeding out the competition via regulation), especially when time comes for the scooter companies to start making money and the prices go up.
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  #6448  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 6:34 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Drivers get to use part of new South Mountain Freeway

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ea/2864553002/

About almost completed construction new Loop 202 South Mountain freeway.
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  #6449  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 6:42 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ea/2864553002/

About almost completed construction new Loop 202 South Mountain freeway.
I know this isnt the place to praise highways but I actually think this is going to be a great thing for the valley connecting east/west
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  #6450  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 6:49 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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I know this isnt the place to praise highways but I actually think this is going to be a great thing for the valley connecting east/west
It's going to be fantastic. A lot of people that I work with or have spoken to live in Chandler and work in state office locations out in the West Valley and vice versa (live out West and work in the East Valley). All of them look forward to taking the 202. It's also going to immensely help with the trucking traffic around 51st Ave/I-10. It's become a nightmare for anyone that works in that area fighting with the truck congestion.
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  #6451  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 10:34 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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Agreed. I really wish South Mountain didn't get desecrated but the freeway is needed to get hazardous cargo and other truck traffic out of Central/Downtown Phoenix. It will be a much better bypass alternative to the 85 as it still puts truckers and other travelers on the fringe of the metro rather than far outside it. Also, it connects West Valley distribution centers and workforce housing with the already developed East Valley.
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  #6452  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 12:48 AM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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And thankfully the reservation and South mountain minimize the extent to which the highway will facilitate sprawl.
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  #6453  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 3:45 AM
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Have I ever mentioned I was an Obama guy? "All of the above" is what I support.

Any chance South Mountain will provide relief for the 202?

Another decade of growth will create plenty of slow moving parking lots. I look for ADOT to consider HOV+3/Express toll lanes at some point.
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  #6454  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 4:44 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Have I ever mentioned I was an Obama guy? "All of the above" is what I support.

Any chance South Mountain will provide relief for the 202?

Another decade of growth will create plenty of slow moving parking lots. I look for ADOT to consider HOV+3/Express toll lanes at some point.
Provide relief for the 202? It's part of the 202 , so I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a joke or you meant another freeway?
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  #6455  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 6:55 AM
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TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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Provide relief for the 202? It's part of the 202 , so I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a joke or you meant another freeway?
I'm confused; what if I said Red Mountain Freeway; does that make more sense.

Okay; I found the map so amend question to the south half relieving the north half?
I was thinking of the stretch between downtown/sky harbor and the 101/Tempe mostly and I suspect it won't make any difference.
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Last edited by TakeFive; Feb 15, 2019 at 7:23 AM.
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  #6456  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 10:14 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Any chance South Mountain will provide relief for the 202?
Not the 202. At noted above, the new freeway is part of the 202 loop. Any relief experienced will be on I-10. I'm sure there will be some short-term relief, but I'm deeply skeptical it will last. Others have mentioned that commutes between the west and east sides of the metro area will be eased. That's true and will offer some relief to those who have already decided to make that long trip every day. My fear, though, is that some people who previously would have avoided that commute by way of their housing and employment choices will now think it's not so bad and make different decisions. Then, we'll find ourselves back on the treadmill trying to catch up once again. I hope I'm wrong, but wariness about induced demand is of many reasons why I opposed the South Mountain Freeway during the planning process.
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  #6457  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 11:45 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I'm confused; what if I said Red Mountain Freeway; does that make more sense.

Okay; I found the map so amend question to the south half relieving the north half?
I was thinking of the stretch between downtown/sky harbor and the 101/Tempe mostly and I suspect it won't make any difference.
If anything, the south part (San Tan) needs the relief more the the north part (Red Mountain). The southeast valley has a lot more population and development than north Mesa where most of the Red Mountain part of the 202 is. I suppose it might pull some through traffic off the 60 (Superstition) since that freeway can be a nightmare.
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  #6458  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 2:38 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Not the 202. At noted above, the new freeway is part of the 202 loop. Any relief experienced will be on I-10. I'm sure there will be some short-term relief, but I'm deeply skeptical it will last. Others have mentioned that commutes between the west and east sides of the metro area will be eased. That's true and will offer some relief to those who have already decided to make that long trip every day. My fear, though, is that some people who previously would have avoided that commute by way of their housing and employment choices will now think it's not so bad and make different decisions. Then, we'll find ourselves back on the treadmill trying to catch up once again. I hope I'm wrong, but wariness about induced demand is of many reasons why I opposed the South Mountain Freeway during the planning process.
I think it will pull enough relief for Phoenix to get some other things done. One thing it is DEFINITELY going to do is give everyone a bypass while they upgrade/widen I-10. Hopefully, after I-10 is completed, that and the South Mountain loop will provide some long-term relief until we finally get some flying cars
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  #6459  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 4:27 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieFoos View Post
I think it will pull enough relief for Phoenix to get some other things done. One thing it is DEFINITELY going to do is give everyone a bypass while they upgrade/widen I-10. Hopefully, after I-10 is completed, that and the South Mountain loop will provide some long-term relief until we finally get some flying cars
Is the I-10 widening around the Broadway curve and Sky Harbor still occurring? That seems to be an on-again, off-again idea. I can't find it listed on ADOT's list of projects:

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/centr...trict-projects

Edit: I just found the project listed on a separate page:

https://www.azdot.gov/planning/trans...o-l202-(santan)

Apparently, the first page I looked at was for projects currently under construction. Mixed feelings about this project. Maybe it will help, or maybe it will induce more demand. I just wish the state government showed the same commitment to commuter rail as a transportation priority.

Last edited by exit2lef; Feb 15, 2019 at 4:43 PM.
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  #6460  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 4:39 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Is the I-10 widening around the Broadway curve and Sky Harbor still occurring? That seems to be an on-again, off-again idea. I can't find it listed on ADOT's list of projects:

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/centr...trict-projects
Here you go: https://www.azdot.gov/media/News/new...-metro-phoenix

and project page: https://azdot.gov/planning/transport...ntan)/overview
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