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  #11861  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
I'll bite.

I won't go as far as to say 'social cohesion' but I will say that a higher diversity of immigrants prevents the formation of majority-single minority resentment that can occur (thinking about the Hispanic population in the US here).

With a broad scope of immigration, you have groups of immigrants who adapt well and those who adapt less well. By having a heterogeneous group, you prevent all immigrants from being painted with the same brush. For instance, the success story of Vietnamese-Canadians in Canada is a positive one that helps mitigate the narrative of difficulties other groups have had in integrating in the eyes of the majority of Canadians.

It also does help with the zeitgeist of current thinking in Canada.
Excellent point. I was just thinking of throwing this type of caveat out there.

If you are going to have immigration it is best to multi-source it as opposed to sole sourcing it.

Many Euro countries are way too sole sourced in terms of immigration.

That said no immigration is probably best for maximum social cohesion.

If that is your goal.
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  #11862  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by EspionNoir View Post
And by the way being a Chinese doesn’t mean he or she ignores ethnic openness and social freedom.
It does if you live in China.
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  #11863  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
It does if you live in China.
That can make sense, yeah if I live in China, especially in these less globally involved cities and don't
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  #11864  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2019, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EspionNoir View Post
That can make sense, yeah if I live in China, especially in these less globally involved cities and don't
Uh, I'm talking about authoritarian repression. You are only allowed to entertain the ethnic diversity and social freedoms permitted by the government. You embrace or espouse others at your peril (Uyghurs, Tibetans, Falun Gong, Taiwanese independence, Facebook, independently organized Christianity etc.).
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  #11865  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 4:19 AM
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When do the metro population counts for the top 25 Canadian CMA's come out?
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  #11866  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 1:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Likka View Post
When do the metro population counts for the top 25 Canadian CMA's come out?
This last table below for July 1 2017 was released update: 2018-02-13. A further update for July 1 2018 is not yet shown in the release schedule but might happen soon.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t001a-eng.htm
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  #11867  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Likka View Post
When do the metro population counts for the top 25 Canadian CMA's come out?
Subprovincial population estimates (CMAs, Economic Regions, etc.) are due out any day now. They're usually released in February for the previous July, so we'll be getting July 1, 2018 numbers for CMAs within the next two weeks.
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  #11868  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 3:32 PM
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This round will take an extra couple weeks. These will be the first numbers with the 2016 census under counts included.

Realistically, these are the most accurate CMA numbers we've gotten since 2014.
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  #11869  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 7:10 PM
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I’m expecting the Windsor CMA to hit 350,000 finally!
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  #11870  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2019, 8:21 PM
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Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
This last table below for July 1 2017 was released update: 2018-02-13. A further update for July 1 2018 is not yet shown in the release schedule but might happen soon.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t001a-eng.htm
Vancouver has grown by 100 000 people in 2 years? What is the time frame between the last census and these latest figures?
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  #11871  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 5:28 AM
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The census numbers donèt include the undercount which is ussually around to 2 to 3%.
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  #11872  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Likka View Post
When do the metro population counts for the top 25 Canadian CMA's come out?
If this can help Institut de la statistique du Québec, which is always synchronized with StatCan for CMA population estimates, says March 2019 for the 2018 numbers.

In french only (page 16) : http://www.stat.gouv.qc.ca/salle-pre...-2018-2019.pdf

I guess we'll have to wait an extra month this year due to the census undercount as someone has already mentionned.
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  #11873  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 1:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
I think the historical record shows precisely the opposite. Can you name any examples where your seemingly baseless assertion is true? I can't think of any.
The historical record doesn't have very many examples though of truly equal representation of many global groups living side by side though. Many societies that have people from all over the world (NYC, Toronto, London, Sydney etc.) were this way only relatively recently.

I suppose some island societies like in the Caribbean, Trinidad, Latin America etc. count as they have various mixes of Africans, Europeans, native people, Asians etc. but in many cases its not an apples to apples comparison to modern megadiverse cities as many places with three or more major continental groups in colonial times got that way not through voluntary immigration but conquest or forced migration (eg. African slaves brought by European colonists to replace indigenous workers, plus later indentured Asian workers).

Truly balanced fairly even representation of multiple voluntary immigrants (not due to conquest) worldwide is still a new enough thing that history is still in the making so the past may not be a good guide.
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  #11874  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Excellent point. I was just thinking of throwing this type of caveat out there.

If you are going to have immigration it is best to multi-source it as opposed to sole sourcing it.

Many Euro countries are way too sole sourced in terms of immigration.

That said no immigration is probably best for maximum social cohesion.

If that is your goal.
Today's immigration to Canada is certainly not particular sole-sourced compared to the past (in the past you had groups like British immigrants to Anglo-Canada dominate the immigration charts for generations and today countries can rise and fall as immigration sources much more rapidly, like how you still had Eastern European immigration in the 90s like Bosnians, and then Sri Lankans etc. suddenly mainland Chinese immigration rises in the 2000s but appears to be down from its peak in the mid 00's, alongside Filipinos, Indians, etc. and now African places like Nigeria rise), nor is Canada single-sourced compared to contemporary places like the heavily Latin American skew to US border states or Middle East-North Africa skew to much of Europe.

Yes Canada skews Asian/Mid-east quite a bit but the major groups like Indians, Chinese, Filipinos, Arabs are quite diverse within the region, plus Africa is increasingly represented.

I wouldn't be surprised if contemporary or near-future Canadian immigration is one of the examples of the least sole-sourced major "countries of immigration" since we'll have a major Old World bloc of heterogeneous immigrants as Africa rises and balances out Asian immigration (literally the first and second most populous continents and super-diverse among them).
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  #11875  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That said no immigration is probably best for maximum social cohesion.

If that is your goal.
But countries can still split into squabbling factions among themselves with no newly arrived immigrants as the "other" to compare themselves to, as native-born groups either fight for political, ideological dominance or other reasons.

Countries like China, despite its famous homogeneity, still fell into disarray when uprisings/rebellions among its own peoples caused dynasties to fall and millions of the same ethnicity to kill one another in history.

Even in the US, social cohesion was certainly lower when there was a Civil War to nearly tear the country apart even though the participants were heavily "old stock" Americans, and even the times when immigration was high in the US did not compare to this level of disunity.
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  #11876  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2019, 4:55 AM
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What exactly is the holdup? What have they not released the population CMA's? It's the only reason I ever check the StatsCan website out.
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  #11877  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2019, 5:49 AM
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Montréal-Longueuil-Laval have a combined population of 2,886,167 : 1026,14 km² . 2,813/km² . July 1st, 2018
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  #11878  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2019, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
But countries can still split into squabbling factions among themselves with no newly arrived immigrants as the "other" to compare themselves to, as native-born groups either fight for political, ideological dominance or other reasons.

Countries like China, despite its famous homogeneity, still fell into disarray when uprisings/rebellions among its own peoples caused dynasties to fall and millions of the same ethnicity to kill one another in history.

Even in the US, social cohesion was certainly lower when there was a Civil War to nearly tear the country apart even though the participants were heavily "old stock" Americans, and even the times when immigration was high in the US did not compare to this level of disunity.
But there, you said it yourself: It's always about "the other". There are groups that don't feel like they're part of the whole and as a result, they tend to want to secede.

I'd have to argue that homogeneity is better for a country as a whole, as well. Homogeneous nations tend to have lower crime rates and suffer far less from the social ills often found. I see it as purely a cultural phenomenon, however, so if anybody who enters a country is willing to completely accept the culture of their host then there's less likely to be friction. One of the reasons I don't buy into the idea of multiculturalism as a national policy is precisely because it promotes disunity. Hyphenated lineage equates to hyphenated dedication in my view and that's never good for any nation.
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  #11879  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2019, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Likka View Post
What exactly is the holdup? What have they not released the population CMA's? It's the only reason I ever check the StatsCan website out.
Likely because this is the first release utilizing the new 2016 numbers and subcounts.
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  #11880  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
But there, you said it yourself: It's always about "the other". There are groups that don't feel like they're part of the whole and as a result, they tend to want to secede.

I'd have to argue that homogeneity is better for a country as a whole, as well. Homogeneous nations tend to have lower crime rates and suffer far less from the social ills often found. I see it as purely a cultural phenomenon, however, so if anybody who enters a country is willing to completely accept the culture of their host then there's less likely to be friction. One of the reasons I don't buy into the idea of multiculturalism as a national policy is precisely because it promotes disunity. Hyphenated lineage equates to hyphenated dedication in my view and that's never good for any nation.
I feel like this is a challenging hypothesis to test, although there are interesting theories accounting for some of the variations in the data.

Crime and social ills are terms that are difficult to define and quantify in some sense, but to keep it simple, I think we can agree that there are places that exhibit diversity that appear to have a better quality of life than places that are homogeneous. Of course, the same can be said in reverse -- some homogeneous places appear to exhibit a higher quality of life than some diverse places. Further, you can argue that the causal connection doesn't exist or is the opposite -- immigrants are drawn to places with a high quality of life, without diversity necessarily contributing to the place having a high quality of life. One could further argue that the diversity has made the place worse.

But these are weighty claims and we really need to dig into the data to test them.

Another major issue to consider with these claims is what diversity really means. It seems like there will always be otherization because absolute homogeneity can never be achieved. If you achieve ethnic homogeneity, the society could fracture along the lines of religion, economic class, caste, ideology, and more.

Also worth considering, in the context of Canada, there has been diversity from the outset. There seem to be many historical communities in Canada. For simplicity, we can break it down into (i) Francophone communities of European origin, (ii) Anglophone communities of European origin, and (iii) a variety of Indigenous communities.

Would Canada be better if Canada only had the Anglophone communities of European origin? Perhaps we would be more like England or Australia, which mainly has the Anglophone communities.

While being a country with two solitudes, an ever-active independence movement, and a variety of Indigenous communities with some measure of autonomy can be a headache, I don't think Canada is a worse place because of it. But that is also a weighty claim to be tested.
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