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View Poll Results: Should Turks and Caicos join Canada?
Yes 58 69.05%
No 26 30.95%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Argentina once thought that.
Giving something up to Canada isn't at all the same psychologically as giving something up to Argentina.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 9:57 PM
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Giving something up to Canada isn't at all the same psychologically as giving something up to Argentina.
Also Canada probably isn't going to invade Turks and Caicos.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Even if the T&C pleaded to join and Canadians wanted it to it will NEVER happen. Ottawa knows that if they allowed T&C in, Canada will become the next Italy, Spain, or Greece...……...a foot in the door for would-be boat refugees and especially from impoverished Haiti.
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post

It would be a stepping stone for boat refugees from impoverished countries especially Haiti and we see how well that/s working out in Europe. I would be open to the Bermuda as it is more isolated so refugees would not be an issue and is much closer to home.
Then why doesn't it happen with the US and Puerto Rico or the US Virgin Islands (to be fair, not as close to Haiti relative to Turks and Caicos but still closer than Bermuda)? Clearly tons of people want to move to the US but all the emphasis in on that southern land border. Aside from Cuba to Florida with the American "wet-foot dry-foot" anti-communist asylum seeker policy, few talk about entering developed nations like the US via the Caribbean route.

Also, why doesn't it happen with the British and French Caribbean, which are technically part of the UK and France and are parts of "developed nations" -- if Haitians are going to use Turks and Caicos as a stepping stone, why don't they use the other western countries' colonies and territories to do so already; if there are measures that mean it's hard to do that, wouldn't the same happen for Canada?

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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I've always found it interesting how much more willing and eager the Brits are to give up their vestiges of empire than the French.
That is an interesting point -- Indian independence and Gandhi comes to mind.

I don't know much about the topic or why that might be but it's interesting to note that the two really fierce post-WWII decolonization wars that come to mind for France -- French Algeria, and French Indochina (which later carried over to the Vietnam war with the US in the Cold War), seemed much more casualty heavy and intense than the British examples.
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
Whelp there you have it: ssiguy has stated not once, but twice that his distaste of scary black refugees to be the major sticking point for confederation with a Caribbean island.

Time to pack it in boys!
That's a very annoying strawman. There are possible reasons to object to letting destitute uneducated people move to our welfare state society that have nothing at all to do with skin color.
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:07 PM
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Turks and Caicos is not part of the U.K., it is a British Overseas Territory. You have to clear customs and immigration to travel between the two.

I can’t think of any reason why TC would want to join Canada.

I can’t think of any reason why the U.K. would want to transfer sovereignty.

I can’t think of any benefit to Canada. For those fantasizing about a sun destination, look at the size of the place.
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:17 PM
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Has neo-colonialism come back in fashion?
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Turks and Caicos is not part of the U.K., it is a British Overseas Territory. You have to clear customs and immigration to travel between the two.

I can’t think of any reason why TC would want to join Canada.

I can’t think of any reason why the U.K. would want to transfer sovereignty.

I can’t think of any benefit to Canada. For those fantasizing about a sun destination, look at the size of the place.
Eh, you can still make a small place great if you put some effort into it.

I mean, Singapore is only one tiny island-sized city-state that's 722.5 km2, a former British colony kicked out of Malaysia, and everyone loves to rave about how it's sophisticated and world class nowadays.

Turks and Caicos' area is 616.3 km2.
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinus View Post
That isn't what he said, so stop twisting words around. Plus it's a legitimate and valid concern that many others share.
Hardly. In all my readings about this scheme the specter of Haitian refugees flooding Canada has never come up. In this case why isn't Puerto Rico being inundated? Why aren't the US Virgin Islands? His comment, while easy to overlook the 1st time belies it's true intention when repeated a 2nd time in less than a day not to mention his notorious post history wrt race relations.
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Eh, you can still make a small place great if you put some effort into it.

I mean, Singapore is only one tiny island-sized city-state that's 722.5 km2, a former British colony kicked out of Malaysia, and everyone loves to rave about how it's sophisticated and world class nowadays.

Turks and Caicos' area is 616.3 km2.
God damn, you do have a point man!

Instead of wishing for a Canadian Puerto Rico or Hawaii we should be gunning for a Canadian Singapore! It's already strategically located on the Windward Passage on a direct line from Europe to the Panama Canal. We just need to move in some Chinese there to displace the local population and bring it up to 1st world entrepôt within a generation! /s
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
the place has absolutely nothing to do with Canada.
T&C has centuries old ties to Nova Scotia due to the extensive trading relationships Nova Scotia formed 200 years ago. It bears mentioning that Scotiabank expanded to the Caribbean before it expanded to Ontario. It's no coincidence that Scotiabank has a heavy presence throughout the Caribbean.

If T&C did vote to join Canada the Canadian Constitution would need to be amended. This is politically problematic for Canada. To get around this obstacle Nova Scotia suggested that T&C could become part of Nova Scotia, and by extension part of Canada. T&C joining Canada seems to crop up every few decades. It will likely never happen but it did gain enough traction that Nova Scotia made the overture.

What's more accurate is that T&C has nothing to do with central Canada. Central Canada ≠ Canada.
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Last edited by isaidso; Feb 4, 2019 at 10:40 PM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 10:53 PM
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Eh, you can still make a small place great if you put some effort into it.

I mean, Singapore is only one tiny island-sized city-state that's 722.5 km2, a former British colony kicked out of Malaysia, and everyone loves to rave about how it's sophisticated and world class nowadays.

Turks and Caicos' area is 616.3 km2.
And what Singapore-like features would Canadian rule bring? If the Canadian policy makers believe they have this capacity they should build a Singapore in Canada.
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
That's a very annoying strawman. There are possible reasons to object to letting destitute uneducated people move to our welfare state society that have nothing at all to do with skin color.
Actually it even tends to go farther than this. It's not uncommon for people to argue that nationality shouldn't mean anything, and that it's bad to discriminate between people born in Canada or people born elsewhere.

The problem with this is that nationality does matter around the world whether we like it or not. If Canada stops looking after Canadians specifically then Canadians will be some of the worst off in the world, because many other populations have nation states looking out for them to varying degrees.

Let's say a rich guy decided he dislikes the notion of private property and he gives away his stuff. Does he usher in a new era of global egalitarianism or do people show up, cart it all away, and keep it for themselves?
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  #54  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Actually it even tends to go farther than this. It's not uncommon for people to argue that nationality shouldn't mean anything, and that it's bad to discriminate between people born in Canada or people born elsewhere.

The problem with this is that nationality does matter around the world whether we like it or not. If Canada stops looking after Canadians specifically then Canadians will be some of the worst off in the world, because many other populations have nation states looking out for them to varying degrees.

Let's say a rich guy decided he dislikes the notion of private property and he gives away his stuff. Does he usher in a new era of global egalitarianism or do people show up, cart it all away, and keep it for themselves?
We could be a second Malta. Lots of Russians living in London with Canadian passports.
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  #55  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:31 PM
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voted no, not because it would somehow flood Canada with third world welfare seekers (as though we need an island for that! ) but because it's simply thinking too small..

with the US preoccupied with their southern border, and now Venezuela, the time has never been more opportune to grab the big enchilada of the Caribbean, and annex Cuba

in a weird way, it wouldn't even really be an invasion, just young Justin claiming his birthright

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  #56  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:40 PM
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Everyone seems to be thinking that T&C is full of destitute subsistence farmers or service workers, when in fact it's GDP per Capita (PPP) puts it firmly between Poland and Portugal.

Gee, I wonder what could have caused that dissonance?
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
And what Singapore-like features would Canadian rule bring? If the Canadian policy makers believe they have this capacity they should build a Singapore in Canada.
Isn't that what they are trying to do with Vancouver? I mean importing a messload of Chinese was the first step in getting Singapore off the ground

Geography would be one of the main reasons why a Singapore in present day Canada wouldn't really form. We're a long way from everywhere else that's not named the United States. T&C, as I stated previously, is pretty strategically located between Europe and the Panama Canal.
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  #58  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
Everyone seems to be thinking that T&C is full of destitute subsistence farmers or service workers, when in fact it's GDP per Capita (PPP) puts it firmly between Poland and Portugal.

Gee, I wonder what could have caused that dissonance?
Fun fact, T&C's has the world's only conch farm on the island of Providenciales

A friend of ours bought a small island in the Turks two years ago and she's in the process of having an off-grid home built on it. Hoping to get down there when it is complete to check it out.

As for becoming a province.. yeah they've been saying that for awhile. Doubt it'll ever happen
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  #59  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Turks and Caicos is not part of the U.K., it is a British Overseas Territory. You have to clear customs and immigration to travel between the two.

I can’t think of any reason why TC would want to join Canada.

I can’t think of any reason why the U.K. would want to transfer sovereignty.

I can’t think of any benefit to Canada. For those fantasizing about a sun destination, look at the size of the place.
If their relationship with Canada was to be the same as with Britain, there might be no advantage for them. A more direct relationship (i.e. province or territory of Canada) would open up all of the issues being discussed here. I think Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and all the former British territories serve as examples to learn from.
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  #60  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2019, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
If their relationship with Canada was to be the same as with Britain, there might be no advantage for them. A more direct relationship (i.e. province or territory of Canada) would open up all of the issues being discussed here. I think Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and all the former British territories serve as examples to learn from.
I am not sure people in Puerto Rico are particularly thrilled with their current arrangement. The former British Territories are independent and free to set their own policies.

If T&C becomes part of Canada it inherits Canada’s high taxes on both individuals and corporations (currently zero on corporations and 8% on individuals), loses its principle source of revenue (customs) and control over immigration. It also switches its foreign and defence provider to a weaker country with no nearby territory, less diplomatic clout and no veto at the UNSC.

As I said, if Canadians have some great plan for economic development in a Canadian legal framework then they should first apply it in Canada. Once Nova Scotia figures out how to make Sydney or Yarmouth into the next Singapore then they can make their case in TC.
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