Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The real issue may be that they may not have enough LINTs to run 15 minute service from the Airport to Bayview and the FLIRTs will be too long for that branch.

I agree that could be an issue. On Confederation, train length will be consistent (98 meters weekdays, 48 meters weekend). Having two types of trains on the Trillium (41 meters and 80 meters) might not work.

Unless they post an actual schedule. When this LINT shows up at these times, it's an airport shuttle. If you see a FLIRT at that time, it's a Riverside South train. Wouldn't be much different than Vancouver I guess. Maybe even more obvious because you have a visual aid other than the writing on the electronic boards.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

.....
When this LINT shows up at these times, it's an airport shuttle. If you see a FLIRT at that time, it's a Riverside South train.
.....
Maybe even more obvious because you have a visual aid other than the writing on the electronic boards.

Good Day.

For interlining service, given the mix, that would be the best......
as long as they keep the frequency up on the interline to 10-12 minutes, giving each leg of the split 20-24 minute frequency.
Anything longer is just simply not tolerable.

Hopeful?

[mxg308]

It appear that AA is cutting YOW-PHL frequency back down to double daily starting April 9th. It appears that the late afternoon flight was cut. However, just looking through google flights it looks like the third frequency comes back June 6th. Anyway, here is the airliners.net OAG changes reference: AA PHL-YOW MAY 3>2[3]

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by mxg308

It appear that AA is cutting YOW-PHL frequency back down to double daily starting April 9th. It appears that the late afternoon flight was cut. However, just looking through google flights it looks like the third frequency comes back June 6th. Anyway, here is the airliners.net OAG changes reference: AA PHL-YOW MAY 3>2[3]

Yeah I noticed that too. Hopefully it's only temporary and doesn't revert back to 2x only over the long-term. However, from April 9th to May 3, it's still 3x but the evening flight operates x23. Then for that 1 full month it's 2x only from May 4th to June 5th. So not quite as bad.

[Dominion301]

So I saw on Flair’s Twitter feed that the big announcement is on February 13th.

[Dominion301]

January's pax stats are already out:

Jan-18 / Jan-19 / % Change
Dom: 278,662 / 272,963 / -2.0% - The decline can almost entirely be attributed to WS reducing YOW-YEG to seasonal + a bit the loss and be attributed to 4N's 2x weekly YOW-YZF-YXY on 07JAN that's largely gone until mid-June.
TB: 66,302 / 66,581 / +0.4% - Not bad considering WS' cancellation of YOW-FLL and YOW-TPA
Int'l: 56,900 / 63,838 / +12.2% - Not surprisingly the only segment with added capacity is the one that grew
TTL 401,864 / 403,382 / +0.4%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2017
Dom: 3,996,510 / -0.1%
TB: 721,049 / + <0.1%
Int'l: 394,760 / +1.8%
TTL: 5,112,319 / + <0.1%

[MountainView]

Thanks for posting the stats, as always!

As for Flair... do we really think they will announce something for YOW on the 13th? Based on what you have said Dominion, and what I have read elsewhere, it does seem like Ottawa is at or near the top of their radar. I am skeptical though.

Would people actually use Flair? I feel like YOW has a lot of loyal AC people (including me) - but Flair could be useful for the VFR traffic ("Visiting Friends & Relatives" - a play on visual flight rules for us airplane nerds).

Do we think if Flair launches, Swoop may come in and launch some seasonal routes as well? Rouge?

I would think we are prime for picking as Greater Ottawa has lots of travel potential, and if it were not for being sandwiched between YUL and YYZ we would probably be an airport in near size to YYC (and certainly greater than YEG in my opinion).

[YOWflier]

Ottawa has a faithful AC/Star Alliance following because there's minimal other choice. If they open up ho-hum domestic markets from YOW they'll be done for. If they get creative and up leisure routes with pent up demand, say Vegas and/or Florida and/or Phoenix, they'll actually fill a vacuum and force the others to chase a bit.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Ottawa has a faithful AC/Star Alliance following because there's minimal other choice. If they open up ho-hum domestic markets from YOW they'll be done for. If they get creative and up leisure routes with pent up demand, say Vegas and/or Florida and/or Phoenix, they'll actually fill a vacuum and force the others to chase a bit.

Hopefully they’ll follow what they’ve done at YWG and YEG and operate domestic in summer and transborder leisure heavy in winter with say a daily to YEG in winter. Time will tell, but I’ll be shocked if YOW is not part of Wednesday’s announcement with at least 1, but hopefully 2 daily flights. Even the CEO has named Ottawa at the top of their next up list.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Ottawa has a faithful AC/Star Alliance following because there's minimal other choice. If they open up ho-hum domestic markets from YOW they'll be done for. If they get creative and up leisure routes with pent up demand, say Vegas and/or Florida and/or Phoenix, they'll actually fill a vacuum and force the others to chase a bit.

Agreed. I am just not seeing the demand/need for a 3 or 4 weekly flight to YWG, YEG or YXX for $50 cheaper than AC/WJ.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Ottawa has a faithful AC/Star Alliance following because there's minimal other choice. If they open up ho-hum domestic markets from YOW they'll be done for. If they get creative and up leisure routes with pent up demand, say Vegas and/or Florida and/or Phoenix, they'll actually fill a vacuum and force the others to chase a bit.

So far, YUL has been filling the void for us. Last vacation, seven of us went to Vegas; we went to YUL to get direct flights. This March Break, nine of us are going to YUL to get direct flights to RSW - and we are saving over $300/person.

Montreal is too close for Ottawa not to offer choices at reasonable prices.

[Harley613]

I don't know why but I've been getting stupidly cheap flights out out of Ottawa to Newark and then on to Latin America, cheaper than Montreal. I went to Bogota at the beginning of January for $530 return and just got back from Costa Rica two hours ago and it was $351 return. I keep checking Google Flights and United keeps giving away flights!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Ottawa has a faithful AC/Star Alliance following because there's minimal other choice. If they open up ho-hum domestic markets from YOW they'll be done for. If they get creative and up leisure routes with pent up demand, say Vegas and/or Florida and/or Phoenix, they'll actually fill a vacuum and force the others to chase a bit.

Exactly. Even hardcore Aeroplan collectors aren't going to pay much extra for an Air Canada flight on a leisure flight. Their basic fare gets you no Aeroplan points so unless you have lounge access the Star Alliance is irrelevant. (Even lounge is useless if flying directly to the US.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

So far, YUL has been filling the void for us. Last vacation, seven of us went to Vegas; we went to YUL to get direct flights. This March Break, nine of us are going to YUL to get direct flights to RSW - and we are saving over $300/person.

Montreal is too close for Ottawa not to offer choices at reasonable prices.

Even on leisure destinations that Ottawa has, it's a premium to fly from here. I'm leaving with a group of 5 to PUJ from YUL and it's $250 cheaper to fly from there. Mind you, we're on Rouge vs. Mainline but for a four hour flight we still feel it's worth it.

[YOWflier]

I never found there to be a significant price discrepancy between YOW/YUL/YYZ for all-inclusive type vacations to Cuba/Dominican/Mexico etc. when I was taking those trips. More options, definitely, but the prices were generally comparable when comparing apples and apples.

[CityTech]

A lot of Ottawa's air traffic is federally-funded work travel which won't use a ULCC.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I never found there to be a significant price discrepancy between YOW/YUL/YYZ for all-inclusive type vacations to Cuba/Dominican/Mexico etc. when I was taking those trips. More options, definitely, but the prices were generally comparable when comparing apples and apples.

It really depends when you are travelling and how much advance notice you have. For example, for the Ontario March Break, the price in Ottawa will rise sooner than in Montreal (since Quebec usually has theirs on a different week), so sometimes you can save money then.

How many people are travelling can also make a huge difference. When travelling alone, the savings can be eaten up by the extra driving costs. If travelling in a large group, the savings are multiplied, but the cost of driving remains the same if you can all fit in the same vehicle. So if there are 6 of you and you each save $200, that is $1200 in savings. That's a lot of gas and parking money.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I never found there to be a significant price discrepancy between YOW/YUL/YYZ for all-inclusive type vacations to Cuba/Dominican/Mexico etc. when I was taking those trips. More options, definitely, but the prices were generally comparable when comparing apples and apples.

Agreed. Though there are some times when there are big differences. We’re going to FLL at the beginning of Ontario March break, which is the end of Quebec March break. It’s about $300 per ticket cheaper out of YUL on that weekend. We’ll be making the drive.

Edit: You beat me to it Roger.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Even on leisure destinations that Ottawa has, it's a premium to fly from here. I'm leaving with a group of 5 to PUJ from YUL and it's $250 cheaper to fly from there. Mind you, we're on Rouge vs. Mainline but for a four hour flight we still feel it's worth it.

And yet people here argue that rail service making YUL easier to access wouldn't change travel patterns.

Originally Posted by CityTech

A lot of Ottawa's air traffic is federally-funded work travel which won't use a ULCC.

There's nothing in the TB travel rules that say you can't use an ULCC. And you're supposed to travel on lowest fare. Heck, I've dealt with the stupidity where they've booked me on an American carrier and had me pay for two pieces of luggage, all because Air Canada and Westjet were a few dollars more, while the clerk ignored that those airlines have free baggage for Canadian military personnel.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It really depends when you are travelling and how much advance notice you have. For example, for the Ontario March Break, the price in Ottawa will rise sooner than in Montreal (since Quebec usually has theirs on a different week), so sometimes you can save money then.

How many people are travelling can also make a huge difference. When travelling alone, the savings can be eaten up by the extra driving costs. If travelling in a large group, the savings are multiplied, but the cost of driving remains the same if you can all fit in the same vehicle. So if there are 6 of you and you each save $200, that is $1200 in savings. That's a lot of gas and parking money.

Yes I should have mentioned in my post I'm going this Saturday -- the start of my reading week at Carleton. We flew mainline out of YOW last year the same week and our flight was sold out by the end of November.