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  #701  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 8:29 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Yep, just a terrible fad to market the city as urban and modern without actually helping anything and spending a lot more money. The streetcar/light rail boom will be taught similarly to the freeway boom in future transportation classes.
light rail≠streetcar

Most recently constructed light rail systems (e.g. Phoenix and Seattle) have outperformed ridership expectations and continue to experience growing usage. These lines operate over longer distances than streetcars, have their own rights of way, and link cities with suburbs.

The results are less promising with streetcars operating over short distances in mixed traffic. Detroit's Q Line is one of those. If Detroit had been able to muster enough regional cooperation and funding to build a true light rail line -- perhaps an L-shaped route from Oakland County down Woodward into Downtown Detroit and then heading west through Dearborn to the airport in Romulus -- that would be a whole different scenario. The Q Line, however, seems like rail for the sake of rail, more linked to economic development dreams than actual mobility.
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  #702  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
light rail≠streetcar

Most recently constructed light rail systems (e.g. Phoenix and Seattle) have outperformed ridership expectations and continue to experience growing usage. These lines operate over longer distances than streetcars, have their own rights of way, and link cities with suburbs.

The results are less promising with streetcars operating over short distances in mixed traffic. Detroit's Q Line is one of those. If Detroit had been able to muster enough regional cooperation and funding to build a true light rail line -- perhaps an L-shaped route from Oakland County down Woodward into Downtown Detroit and then heading west through Dearborn to the airport in Romulus -- that would be a whole different scenario. The Q Line, however, seems like rail for the sake of rail, more linked to economic development dreams than actual mobility.
To be fair to Detroit’s transportation planners, they proposed a 10+ miles long publically financed light rail corridor on Woodward, not the significantly shorter privately financed Q-Line using streetcars.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a shorter rail line, no matter which type, is not going to attract as many commuters if it restricts the number of residents capable of using it. A short streetcar line that only connects immediately adjacent neighborhoods is not going to attract commuters traveling further. I have no doubt that if the Q-Line was extended further out to 10, 11, or 12 Mile Road as originally planned,or even further, its ridership would increase exponentially.

Detroit is well laid out for at grade rail lines within wide city streets, whether the rails share lanes or run in dedicated lanes, along several boulevards radiating out from the city central business district. But it will take public funding for it to occur, private enterprise will not be able to accomplish that full rail network. Private enterprise will only be able to achieve Q-Line length rail lines, better for businesses participating but not necessary good for commuters. I look at the Q-line as a seedling of what could be.
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  #703  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 9:08 PM
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animatedmartian animatedmartian is offline
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Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
These articles seem inherently anti-streetcar.

As far as financials, the QLine is something like 75% privately funded. Even if no one uses it, the costs of construction and operations have been paid for for the next 5 years. Obviously, it'll be an issue if ridership stayed low during that time, but it isn't expected to with the influx of new residents moving into downtown Detroit.

As far as actual mobility problems, those issues are far bigger than the QLine could ever be, and even if it reached X number of miles into whatever suburbs, Detroit would still have those same mobility issues. The QLine might be a better success, but it wouldn't solve the issues that overhang the region as a whole.

The QLine was never meant to solve any transit issues, but start as the foundation for a system to grow from.
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  #704  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
light rail≠streetcar

Most recently constructed light rail systems (e.g. Phoenix and Seattle) have outperformed ridership expectations and continue to experience growing usage. These lines operate over longer distances than streetcars, have their own rights of way, and link cities with suburbs.

The results are less promising with streetcars operating over short distances in mixed traffic. Detroit's Q Line is one of those. If Detroit had been able to muster enough regional cooperation and funding to build a true light rail line -- perhaps an L-shaped route from Oakland County down Woodward into Downtown Detroit and then heading west through Dearborn to the airport in Romulus -- that would be a whole different scenario. The Q Line, however, seems like rail for the sake of rail, more linked to economic development dreams than actual mobility.
I know light rail is different from streetcars, doesn't change my feelings that both suck. I've gone on that rant on this thread before, so I won't bother you guys with it again, I just couldn't help myself in replying to that one topic specifically.
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  #705  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 9:25 PM
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3k daily riders on a 3 mile streetcar in Detroit seems like a huge success to me. What am I missing? Transit usage there is quite minimal and the line is very short. It just needs to be extended!
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  #706  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 9:29 PM
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3k daily riders on a 3 mile streetcar in Detroit seems like a huge success to me. What am I missing? Transit usage there is quite minimal and the line is very short. It just needs to be extended!
Yeah, half a billion dollars to serve 3,000 riders/day is a great successful investment. How many of those people already took the bus one wonders too - previous case studies show it's most of them.
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  #707  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 9:36 PM
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500 million was for the whole 10 miles. FOH... this portion cost 137 million which includes facilities etc which are a one-off expense. Every system must start somewhere and this is an encouraging start.
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  #708  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 9:49 PM
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Okay fine, I still think $137 million would have gone much farther in terms of ridership (and actual mobility, which seems to be the most forgotten part of transit infrastructure) improvements if invested in the bus system.
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  #709  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 3:15 PM
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City and Potawatomi strike 12-year, $10 million streetcar presenting sponsorship agreement, includes free rides for the first 12 months

Read More: http://urbanmilwaukee.com/pressrelea...rst-12-months/

Quote:
Mayor Tom Barrett and Rodney Ferguson, CEO of Potawatomi Hotel & Casino, today announced that the City of Milwaukee and the Forest County Potawatomi Community have come to an agreement whereby Potawatomi Hotel & Casino will be the presenting sponsor of the city’s streetcar system. The name will be “The Hop, presented by Potawatomi Hotel & Casino.”

The deal is for $10 million payable over 12 years. The parties intend to sign a letter of intent in the coming weeks with a full contract to follow. The funds will be used to offset operating costs and will include free rides for all for the first 12 months of the streetcar’s operation. The streetcar system is currently under construction. The Phase 1 line is expected to begin service in fall 2018 and the Lakefront Line will follow in coordination with the construction of The Couture development. “This is yet another important and exciting step for the City of Milwaukee and the streetcar. The momentum keeps building,” said Mayor Tom Barrett. “We’re thrilled to have Potawatomi Hotel & Casino as our partner in moving Milwaukee forward.”

.....



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