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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 2:13 PM
Prahaboheme Prahaboheme is offline
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Re: Orlando SunRail

It is a phased opening, but the total mileage is actually 61 miles.

Phase I (operational 2014): 31 miles
Phase II (operational 2016): 30 miles

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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 2:45 PM
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I updated the list to add Denver Gold & NW commuter rail, San Francisco BART to Berryessa, and San Francisco Central subway LRT. I also added a note specifying that the Orlando commuter rail is phase 1 only (similar to my note for the DC Silver line).

San Francisco SMART will go on in 2 weeks.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 4:36 PM
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The partially privately funded Delmar Loop streetcar is scheduled to break ground this fall. It's going to use renovated St. Louis Car Company vehicles instead of the Skodas.


http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townn...8d36.image.jpg

UNIVERSITY CITY • The Loop Trolley project, having amassed almost all the $43 million it needs, is ready to move into high gear.

Construction is expected to begin late this year, with the trolleys in operation about a year later.

When completed, the 2.2-mile system connecting the Delmar Loop to Forest Park will look a lot like the system that ran on St. Louis streets a half-century ago.

In a big change of plans, old, renovated streetcars will be used instead of pricier electric/battery cars. And the system will be powered by overhead electric lines running above Delmar Boulevard and DeBaliviere Avenue, like St. Louis' old streetcar system.



Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...#ixzz1rwJjxvGE
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 4:39 PM
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Just an update, and yeah no shovels in the ground yet. The planning has hit a milestone, though.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 4:47 PM
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Great thread! It's impressive to see all the passenger rail construction going on across the country. (400+ miles!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
...San Francisco SMART will go on in 2 weeks.
Can't wait to see Sonoma Marin Area Rail Transit on the list!
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
  • Commuter Rail: 233 miles total
    • Denver East, Gold, and NW lines -39 miles
    • New Jersey Lackawanna cutoff - 7 miles
    • New York LIRR east access - 4 miles
    • Orlando Sunrail phase 1 - 31 miles
    • Providence Wickford extension - 20 miles
    • Salt Lake City Front Runner south - 44 miles
    • San Francisco eBART lines - 80 miles
    • Seattle Lakewood line - 8 miles
Wait a sec. I'm curious how you arrive at 80 miles for eBART:

Quote:
2.3 ROUTE/ALIGNMENT

Horizontal and Vertical Alignment


The Proposed Project (including maintenance facilities) would extend approximately 10 miles
from the Pittsburg/Bay Point BART Station eastward via the median of SR 4 (see Figure 2-1).
The distance from the Pittsburg/Bay Point BART Station to the terminus station platform in the
median east of Hillcrest Avenue is 9.1 miles
; the remaining approximately 0.9 miles is for train
storage and maintenance.
http://www.bart.gov/docs/ecc/2.0_Pro...escription.pdf
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 9:27 PM
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It's so great to finally see Cincinnati on a list of cities currently building rail! It's been a long time coming...

For those who haven't seen it in my Cincinnati Development thread, here is a rendering of the rolling stock selected for the Cincinnati Streetcar (made by CAF in Elmira NY).

Source: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/inde...cseen.html#new


Also, Cincinnati is already applying for funds for further streetcar extensions.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northbay View Post
Wait a sec. I'm curious how you arrive at 80 miles for eBART:
http://www.bart.gov/docs/ecc/2.0_Pro...escription.pdf
Looks like that's a mistake. I was reading this, and misread SMART as a 2nd eBART line. 80 miles comes from adding 10 miles of eBART with 70 miles of SMART.

I'll change the list.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Looks like that's a mistake. I was reading this, and misread SMART as a 2nd eBART line. 80 miles comes from adding 10 miles of eBART with 70 miles of SMART.

I'll change the list.
Man, now the mileage is hella goin down - should've kept my big mouth shut

I'm a big fan of the Transport Politic site by the way
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2012, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Seattle will start the 2 mile First Hill Streetcar this month. This will connect the King Street / International District dual stations with First Hill (hospitals, housing, and Seattle U) and the new Light Rail tunnel station currently going in on Capitol Hill.

Won't run anywhere near often enough. Grrr.
How often will it run? I can't find anything online.

If it's only 2.2 miles, it would take very little to maintain frequent service. Assume 4.5 miles round trip including turnarounds at either end. That shouldn't take more than 25-30 minutes for a round trip. That would mean only 5-6 streetcars would be required for 5 minute headways. Even if there is a short layover at either end, 7 streetcars should be enough to maintain 5 minute service.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 1:50 AM
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I'm sure this question from laymen like myself has been answered many times in this forum before, and for the repetition I apologize. But I'm curious. What is the technical difference between light rail and streetcar? I see that Cincinnati's U/C system is qualified as streetcar, but in the rendering the cars look almost identical to Houston's, which is qualified as light rail.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 1:56 AM
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Yeah that some light rail-y rolling stock in Cincinnati. I think that's cool, though. I always forget how big modern streetcars are.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 4:17 PM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BnaBreaker View Post
I'm sure this question from laymen like myself has been answered many times in this forum before, and for the repetition I apologize. But I'm curious. What is the technical difference between light rail and streetcar? I see that Cincinnati's U/C system is qualified as streetcar, but in the rendering the cars look almost identical to Houston's, which is qualified as light rail.
Excellent question, because it is sometimes very hard to distinguish any difference. I believe you'll find Salt Lake City's Sugar House streetcar line will be using the exact same light rail cars as their newly opened light rail lines.

The only true common differences between the two are
(1) Light rail trains don't share lanes with other traffic while streetcars will.
(2) Light rail trains can use multiple units while streetcars don't.
(3) Streetcars can turn tighter curves than light rail trains.
And I don't think those common differences are 100% true for every case.

Because light rail are ran in multiple units, they're called trains instead of cars. They can also be used in longer corridors which require larger capacity trains. And because the trains are longer, they require dedicated lanes.

Therefore, it's function of the rail line more than the rolling stock equipment that makes the difference. Because, for all practical purposes, a streetcar is a single light rail unit, or vice versa, a light rail train is two or more streetcars coupled together.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Will View Post
How often will it run? I can't find anything online.

If it's only 2.2 miles, it would take very little to maintain frequent service. Assume 4.5 miles round trip including turnarounds at either end. That shouldn't take more than 25-30 minutes for a round trip. That would mean only 5-6 streetcars would be required for 5 minute headways. Even if there is a short layover at either end, 7 streetcars should be enough to maintain 5 minute service.
10 minute frequency at least initially. 18 minute one way trip (including potential traffic delays).

Article from the Seattle Times:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...eetcar11m.html
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Yes, it's in between. I suppose I could move it if people really want me to.
I think I'll have to insist. If you must choose, it's closer to heavy rail than light rail. If only by virtue of complete grade separation and third rail power.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BnaBreaker View Post
What is the technical difference between light rail and streetcar?
Electricron's answer was good. It's really an operational difference more than anything else.

"Light rail" as we know it in this country originally grew out of an attempt to use streetcar vehicles as if they were heavier rapid transit lines.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:13 PM
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Cirrus - back on Denver. If you're going to include the NW commuter rail, then you probably need to include the North commuter rail and the I-225 light rail. Both of those are closer to shovels in the ground than the NW line. (RTD's received unsolicited PPP proposals for both, so those two could very well start soon, even if the second ballot initiative fails.)

Or you can drop the NW rail, I'm fine with that too.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:21 PM
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I had originally left NW off, but SnyderBock indicated it should be on.

I want to be fairly strict with things being under construction, though. There are so many in planning that the list would look a lot different if it includes things that haven't broken ground yet.

So I'll remove it. Is it just the 5 miles of the NW line that needs to come off?
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
I had originally left NW off, but SnyderBock indicated it should be on.

I want to be fairly strict with things being under construction, though. There are so many in planning that the list would look a lot different if it includes things that haven't broken ground yet.

So I'll remove it. Is it just the 5 miles of the NW line that needs to come off?
The 6.2 mile electrified segment to Westminster is tied to the contract for the Airport and Gold lines, so that's okay. The rest needs to come off.

East is 22.8 miles, Gold is 11.2 miles. So however you label it, 40.2 miles is fair to say are "under construction."

EDIT: Which I think is what you had to begin with, I just wasn't adding up the mileages. My bad.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2012, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Excellent question, because it is sometimes very hard to distinguish any difference. I believe you'll find Salt Lake City's Sugar House streetcar line will be using the exact same light rail cars as their newly opened light rail lines.

The only true common differences between the two are
(1) Light rail trains don't share lanes with other traffic while streetcars will.
(2) Light rail trains can use multiple units while streetcars don't.
(3) Streetcars can turn tighter curves than light rail trains.
And I don't think those common differences are 100% true for every case.

Because light rail are ran in multiple units, they're called trains instead of cars. They can also be used in longer corridors which require larger capacity trains. And because the trains are longer, they require dedicated lanes.

Therefore, it's function of the rail line more than the rolling stock equipment that makes the difference. Because, for all practical purposes, a streetcar is a single light rail unit, or vice versa, a light rail train is two or more streetcars coupled together.
That makes a lot of sense! Thank you Electricron for that very precise and detailed answer.
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