Differences between SW Ontario vs Eastern Ontario

[Docere]

- Eastern Ontario is more French Canadian and Irish, SW Ontario is more German and Dutch

- SW Ontario has more evangelicals (Baptists, Mennonites, Dutch Calvinist etc.) - largely though not entirely related to the German/Dutch presence.

- Eastern Ontario has a more visible UEL presence even today. SW Ontario had more settlers (from both Britain and the US) with more democratic and populist tendencies, making it a stronghold for the Liberals (Clear Grits) in the 19th century and the United Farmers of Ontario after WWI. It was also the main bastion of the Ontario Liberals up until the 1970s.

- SW Ontario is probably more "socially conservative" on issues like abortion because of the larger evangelical presence. Eastern Ontario takes the more traditional or conservative position on issues like support for the military and monarchy (in addition to the Loyalist culture of Eastern Ontario, SW Ontario has pockets, particularly German-settled areas, with a more complicated relationship to the military and monarchy).

- In terms of economy, SW Ontario has more prosperous agricultural areas and is also part of the industrial heartland. Eastern Ontario would have more public employment (simply because Ottawa makes about half the population!)

- SW Ontario cities have a more "Midwestern" urban form than Eastern Ontario cities do.

I haven't defined it exactly - but I'm thinking that SW Ontario is more or less synonymous with the 519 area code or "N" postal codes, while Eastern Ontario = 613 or "K" postal codes.

[Docere]

(Also why can't thread titles be edited?)

[Capsicum]

So, these two regions are east and west of the GTA's sphere of influence or, more broadly speaking the Golden Horseshoe's.

I guess, the GTA itself falls into neither of these regions? Hamilton is more aligned with southwestern Ontario. Whereas somewhere between Oshawa and Belleville, the influence of eastern Ontario begins (maybe Cobourg or Peterborough?).

There's not really much of a transitional area between eastern and southwestern Ontario, is there?

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

So, these two regions are east and west of the GTA's sphere of influence or, more broadly speaking the Golden Horseshoe's.

I guess, the GTA itself falls into neither of these regions? Hamilton is more aligned with southwestern Ontario. Whereas somewhere between Oshawa and Belleville, the influence of eastern Ontario begins (maybe Cobourg or Peterborough?).

There's not really much of a transitional area between eastern and southwestern Ontario, is there?

The GTA is neither. Traditionally the "L" postal codes were viewed as south-central Ontario (the Toronto area, Niagara, Simcoe County etc.)

Northumberland, Peterborough, Haliburton and the Kawarthas seem to be the transition area between eastern and central Ontario.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

The GTA is neither. Traditionally the "L" postal codes were viewed as south-central Ontario (the Toronto area, Niagara, Simcoe County etc.)

Northumberland, Peterborough, Haliburton and the Kawarthas seem to be the transition area between eastern and central Ontario.

How about the southwestern Ontario transition to south-central Ontario transition -- is it basically just split between Hamilton's and Toronto's suburban influence, with Hamilton being where the transition to SW starts?

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

How about the southwestern Ontario transition to south-central Ontario transition -- is it basically just split between Hamilton's and Toronto's suburban influence, with Hamilton being where the transition to SW starts?

It could include Hamilton and the Niagara peninsula, Halton Hills, Dufferin County etc.

[Acajack]

Eastern Ontario has tons of Scots in SDG counties.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Eastern Ontario has tons of Scots in SDG counties.

Glengarry County was a Scottish Highland Loyalist settlement, but overall the share of Scottish origin is not dramatically different between SW Ontario and Eastern Ontario.

[Docere]

Eastern Ontario is colder and some of it is in the Canadian Shield.

The Great Lakes loom larger in SW Ontario (particularly Huron/Georgian Bay), while Eastern Ontario has lots of little lakes.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Docere

- Eastern Ontario is more French Canadian and Irish, SW Ontario is more German and Dutch

- SW Ontario has more evangelicals (Baptists, Mennonites, Dutch Calvinist etc.) - largely though not entirely related to the German/Dutch presence.

- Eastern Ontario has a more visible UEL presence even today. SW Ontario had more settlers (from both Britain and the US) with more democratic and populist tendencies, making it a stronghold for the Liberals (Clear Grits) in the 19th century and the United Farmers of Ontario after WWI. It was also the main bastion of the Ontario Liberals up until the 1970s.

- SW Ontario is probably more "socially conservative" on issues like abortion because of the larger evangelical presence. Eastern Ontario takes the more traditional or conservative position on issues like support for the military and monarchy (in addition to the Loyalist culture of Eastern Ontario, SW Ontario has pockets, particularly German-settled areas, with a more complicated relationship to the military and monarchy).

- In terms of economy, SW Ontario has more prosperous agricultural areas and is also part of the industrial heartland. Eastern Ontario would have more public employment (simply because Ottawa makes about half the population!)

- SW Ontario cities have a more "Midwestern" urban form than Eastern Ontario cities do.

I haven't defined it exactly - but I'm thinking that SW Ontario is more or less synonymous with the 519 area code or "N" postal codes, while Eastern Ontario = 613 or "K" postal codes.

I would agree with all of those. I'm trying to think of some additional differences.

-SW ON has much more manufacturing as part of its economy

-SW Ontarians are much more attached to the U.S. (especially economically but also for travel and shopping) than those in Eastern ON. Borders crossing in the SW are mostly city to city while the Eastern ones are between smaller places. You are much more likely to see U.S. companies in the SW. It's often the first place they will try in Canada. For example, many American restaurant chains or stores will try out London. I find that people in the Southwest are much more influenced by Americans.

-Agree that Eastern ON is bigger on military. Both Trenton and Petawawa are places where it is the main employer. I believe Kingston has quite a few people who work in it as well. Ottawa does of course even though it's not a significant percentage of those working in the city. I can't think of any place in the Southwest that is a military town. There is Borden near Barrie but technically that's GTA and not the SW.

-More people in Eastern ON visit Montreal and Quebec much more frequently due to being much closer. This is especially the case East of Kingston and including Ottawa. You hear people in SW ON talking more often about visiting Michigan or Ohio and maybe Chicago over Quebec.

-politically, the NDP has had more success in the Southwest. I don't know of the NDP ever winning more than a couple of seats in Eastern Ontario both federally or provincially with the exception of the 1990 provincial election. In 1990 they won five seats but that was a fluke and the victories were very close three-way splits. In the Southwest, they will often win seats in Windsor, London and sometimes Kitchener.

-

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Borders crossing in the SW are mostly city to city while the Eastern ones are between smaller places.

Good point. SW Ontario shares a border with the most heavily populated part of Michigan, while Eastern Ontario shares a border with NYS's very thinly populated North Country.

-politically, the NDP has had more success in the Southwest. I don't know of the NDP ever winning more than a couple of seats in Eastern Ontario both federally or provincially with the exception of the 1990 provincial election. In 1990 they won five seats but that was a fluke and the victories were very close three-way splits. In the Southwest, they will often win seats in Windsor, London and sometimes Kitchener.

Yup, SW Ontario has a history of industrial trade unionism and class voting for the "labour party." Windsor today is an NDP stronghold.

Eastern Ontario is the weakest region for the NDP in the province.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Docere

Good point. SW Ontario shares a border with the most heavily populated part of Michigan, while Eastern Ontario shares a border with NYS's very thinly populated North Country.




Yup, SW Ontario has a history of industrial trade unionism and class voting for the "labour party." Windsor today is an NDP stronghold.

Eastern Ontario is the weakest region for the NDP in the province.

In Eastern ON only downtown Ottawa votes NDP only some of the time. Peterborough and Kingston only once in a blue moon. Most of the federal public service employees in Ottawa vote Liberal rather than NDP.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Loco101

In Eastern ON only downtown Ottawa votes NDP only some of the time. Peterborough and Kingston only once in a blue moon. Most of the federal public service employees in Ottawa vote Liberal rather than NDP.

Kingston is quite progressive and seems like the kind of place the NDP could do well in (as well as the Greens). But it's a stronghold for the Liberals both federally and provincially. One thing that unites most Kingstonians however is dislike of right-wing parties. Harris never won in Kingston even as he was winning big provincewide and the federal Liberals have held Kingston since 1988.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Docere

Kingston is quite progressive and seems like the kind of place the NDP could do well in (as well as the Greens). But it's a stronghold for the Liberals both federally and provincially. One thing that unites most Kingstonians however is dislike of right-wing parties. Harris never won in Kingston even as he was winning big provincewide and the federal Liberals have held Kingston since 1988.

Liberal vs. NDP is actually based on social class here. There's a large group of white collar upper middle class (and upper class) in Kingston who are almost entirely composed of individuals who have a connection of sorts with the university. As the Queen's community is very much of the "Laurentian elite" sort so to speak, this group finds itself a natural home in the Liberal Party, but historically it can drift to the other parties when they're going through their own "Laurentian elite" phases.. for example during the Clark and Mulroney eras the PC party held Kingston.

The lower-income working class populations are actually pretty solid New Democrats. The north-central part of the city where most of them live tends to have more NDP support; poll by poll maps show much of this area being orange, you see lots of NDP signs there, and the city council candidates elected in the wards covering that area tend to be a lot more likely to be NDP-affiliated than other councillors. The Liberals tend to do well among this group too, though, when they're in their popular phases (for example in the 2015 federal election and in the 2003-2007 provincial elections).

Much of the rest of Kingston's population has much the same balance between Liberal, NDP, and Conservative/PC that you would expect in any other Ontario city It's just that this "Laurentian Elite" population is such a noticeable chunk of the city and so heavily devoted to the Liberals, that when you add the "baseline" Liberal support from the rest of the population, it means the Liberal base is big enough to make it very safe for the Liberals.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Loco101

-SW ON has much more manufacturing as part of its economy

Indeed:

Employed in Manufacturing

SW Ontario 15%
Eastern Ontario 5.2%

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Indeed:

Employed in Manufacturing

SW Ontario 15%
Eastern Ontario 5.2%

How much larger would this difference have been a generation ago... Probably much more.

[Dengler Avenue]

I think OPP's stricter in SW than in Eastern.
Going down the 401 west of London, every now and then, I see signs telling drivers the speeding fine for each increment of 10 km/h over the speed limit. On the other hand, in the east, I only see it at Napanee. Technically there's one east of Cornwall but that one's expected because you're coming into Ontario from another province. But that's only the 401

The other places where I see that sign in eastern Ontario are 17 near (but southeast of) Renfrew and around Alfred (in Prescott & Russell).

In SW, on the other hand, I see those signs on 24 (between Brantford and Waterloo) and on 6 (at Southern Bruce Peninsula).

Maybe I'm just biased.

[MolsonExport]

small town eastern and SW ontario have a lot in common, as do larger cities of eastern and western ontario.

London, KW are much more like Ottawa and Kingston, whereas Lancaster and Mallorytown are a lot like Ridgetown and Innerkip.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

small town eastern and SW ontario have a lot in common, as do larger cities of eastern and western ontario.

London, KW are much more like Ottawa and Kingston, whereas Lancaster and Mallorytown are a lot like Ridgetown and Innerkip.

Yeah, I don't think eastern and western (Southern) Ontario are that different. There's a thread here about splitting up Ontario into new provinces but the only "split" that (may) be understandable because of a fundamental cultural and economic divide is the primary division, Northern and Southern.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yeah, I don't think eastern and western (Southern) Ontario are that different. There's a thread here about splitting up Ontario into new provinces but the only "split" that (may) be understandable because of a fundamental cultural and economic divide is the primary division, Northern and Southern.

Agreed, but I think because of the geographic and demographic characteristics of Northern Ontario, Northern Ontario should be two provinces; NW ON and NE ON.