LA’s miles of parking lots could house more than 800K residents: report

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Or otherwise known as an incredible rise in quality of life and standard of living.

Lol, how ridiculous.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Or what James Kunstler calls "the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the world."

Newsflast: Literally nobody cares about reducing their resource usage. If anything the vast majority of people seek to use as much as possible. People began living in inefficient suburbs because that's where they WANTED to live and they finally could afford to due to the rapidly expanding economy. Nobody wants to live in a bunch of "efficient" commie block apartments or even worse the workplace dormitories you see in some countries. Sure, it's efficient to live at your workplace so you can work 14 hours a day 7 days a week, but maybe that's not what most people would prefer?

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Fella I'm talking about post-war suburbia. Are you extolling the virtues of auto-centric, low-density suburbia? You think that represented "an incredible rise in quality of life and standard of living" that wouldn't have otherwise occurred in a denser, more sustainable form?

The fact remains that this was the most prosperous time in US History and we look back on it now with great envy. Obviously it wasn't perfect, but it was a time when basically anyone (even unskilled workers) could be successful, provide for their family and live a decent life.

Originally Posted by dubu

if people spend 90% or there time indoors then why does everyone need a yard? if i was rich id buy a nice condo or house without a yard or a small yard in a walkable area and have small decks so you can open the doors up and its like you're outside, most houses you cant do that because you're ground level and a robber could just walk in your house. then you can buy other things with the money you save. you just cant have a rv or boat out front.

Well back in the day when the suburbs were rapidly expanding people actually DID go outside. Hell, even when I was a kid we played outside almost exclusively. Kids would likely be a lot healthier (and arguably more intelligent) if their play time consisted of the things I did as a kid like running around outside, building forts out in the woods, playing elaborate pretend games, etc. Video games certainly don't provide that sort of physical stimulation and most don't provide much mental stimulation either.

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Historically speaking, there is a very thin line in this country between the freedom of the car and the requirement of the car when talking about post-war suburbia. The difference representing a significant contributor to quality of life. The United States is quite unique in designing it's suburban landscape entirely around the assumed use of the personal automobile. The same "freedom" delivered by the car is just as much a freedom in a denser, transit served and otherwise more sensibly designed suburbia like those experienced in other modern wealthy nations. To suggest otherwise is not only ridiculous, it comes across as jingoistic.

Personally I live close enough that I have walked to work and could very easily bike to work. But obviously most people who drive can't say the same. Still, depending on your car is a lot better than depending on transit. I control my car, I have no control over when or where the trains run. Case and point when I did have to move my 2 cars I had to take the train to get the second one. But it took like 5 hours to make a 1 hour drive because I had to go all the way into Newark Penn Station and then back down a different line)

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Lol, how ridiculous.

Dude, this isn't even up for debate. Back then REAL wage growth was ~5%/yr. People back then got the same sort of raise every year that we get every decade now.

[dubu]

forests are temporary in most cities. the forests as i would go to as a kid and teen are gone now. i was good at dirtbiking, my dad says if it werent for dirtbiking he probably would have been doing drugs with everyone els. but it keeps you busy, now theres ebikes that are powerfull and thats probably going to replace dirtbiking.

[Busy Bee]

Just to clear something up for the record and I'm not planning on coming back to this conversation.

There seems to be repeated conflation between the economic prosperity of the post-war years that no one is disputing and what I was talking about from the beginning, which is whether or not the form of suburban development was best for anyone or anything and whether what drove the uniquely American suburban era we're still living in was only about "living the life in the boom years" and not what I believe it was largely motivated by which is "they aren't investing in the cities anymore (or furthermore the cities are "a thing of the past")" and "gee whiz the American dream means a little house with the white picket fence, a lawn and a car in the drive" (just like Santa is fat and jolly because Coca-Cola says so), oh and last but not least "I'm getting me and my kids away from all these brown people" white flight.

[dubu]

i guess it shows that money isnt always great, lots of money goes to cities. rately anything amazing is built. ive seen a couple nice looking skyscrapers. its like anything, the new isnt as good as the old. music, video games. it sould be the other way around, i dont understand it. we are trying to figure out why and how we built big triangles in the middle of the desert a long time ago. something ive thought is interesting that you made me think about

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Lol, how ridiculous.

What do you mean? The last 80 years and specifically the last 20-30 has seen the largest rise in quality of life for more people on earth than ever in the history of the world.

Hundreds of millions if not billions of people have been lifted from absolute poverty and brought into modern life. Famine is very nearly a thing of the past.

Take some time to appreciate the progress thats been made.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by dubu

forests are temporary in most cities. the forests as i would go to as a kid and teen are gone now. i was good at dirtbiking, my dad says if it werent for dirtbiking he probably would have been doing drugs with everyone els. but it keeps you busy, now theres ebikes that are powerfull and thats probably going to replace dirtbiking.

That's a nice anecdote but unless you live in Hati or at the edge of the Amazon there are more forests than in the late 1800's due to better logging practices and the concepts of conservation and environmentalism.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What do you mean? The last 80 years and specifically the last 20-30 has seen the largest rise in quality of life for more people on earth than ever in the history of the world.

Hundreds of millions if not billions of people have been lifted from absolute poverty and brought into modern life. Famine is very nearly a thing of the past.

Take some time to appreciate the progress thats been made.

Absolutely, in many ways. Just not on the sprawl or environmental fronts.

[dubu]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What do you mean? The last 80 years and specifically the last 20-30 has seen the largest rise in quality of life for more people on earth than ever in the history of the world.

Hundreds of millions if not billions of people have been lifted from absolute poverty and brought into modern life. Famine is very nearly a thing of the past.

Take some time to appreciate the progress thats been made.

progress? id rather the indians do what they were doing and by now there would be nicer cities. places where you dont have everyone going crazy haha

[twig]

Originally Posted by dubu

progress? id rather the indians do what they were doing and by now there would be nicer cities. places where you dont have everyone going crazy haha

In the words of Joey Tribbiani, "You blow me away"

[dubu]

Originally Posted by twig

In the words of Joey Tribbiani, "You blow me away"

says someone from slc. some day you're city will be like a west coast city.

[toddguy]

Hell if they are surface lots they could simply incorporate the amount of surface parking into garages for the developed properties couldn't they?-just add some extra parking in whatever parking plan they have. Or just develop certain lots and combine the parking lost in a garage on another lot. But I guess that would not help with reducing cars or traffic congestion.

[dubu]

Originally Posted by toddguy

Hell if they are surface lots they could simply incorporate the amount of surface parking into garages for the developed properties couldn't they?-just add some extra parking in whatever parking plan they have. Or just develop certain lots and combine the parking lost in a garage on another lot. But I guess that would not help with reducing cars or traffic congestion.

you mean those robot parking garages? those are cool, china has those. there could be a chunk of a chines city inside la. then have a bunch of trains going to it. thats what id do because i think china is cool.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What do you mean? The last 80 years and specifically the last 20-30 has seen the largest rise in quality of life for more people on earth than ever in the history of the world.

Hundreds of millions if not billions of people have been lifted from absolute poverty and brought into modern life. Famine is very nearly a thing of the past.

Take some time to appreciate the progress thats been made.

After several thousand years, civilization is finally solving the problem that civilization created, lol. Just in time for the next crisis that will be created by global warming.

[dubu]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

After several thousand years, civilization is finally solving the problem that civilization created, lol. Just in time for the next crisis that will be created by global warming.

but at least now we can work together instead of saying we are going to bomb each other.

[LA21st]

https://urbanize.la/post/new-apartme...parking-garage


I wonder if this will become more common in LA.

There seems to be a few of these happening that I know of.

[toddguy]

Originally Posted by LA21st

https://urbanize.la/post/new-apartme...parking-garage


I wonder if this will become more common in LA.

There seems to be a few of these happening that I know of.

This looks like something that could work. You could do this on some of those surface lots, or do this on 3 of them, and then a larger garage with something above it on a 4th that would provide the same parking that all 4 surface lots provided(or even a little more) and not lose parking while increasing density.

But again I don't know what the increase in density would do to traffic congestion, nor do I have a good understanding of what these kinds of structures cost to build in earthquake zones(sort of open structures like parking garages especially with occupied floors above it). I don't know how costly that type of construction would be.

It seems like for a no-earthquake zone with surface parking lots, a lack of undeveloped area, and with a need for more housing units, it would be a no brainer. *also a lack of NIMBYS would be needed smh.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by LA21st

https://urbanize.la/post/new-apartme...parking-garage


I wonder if this will become more common in LA.

There seems to be a few of these happening that I know of.

Isn't that how basically every apartment complex is? 90% of the apartments I see are either that design (apartments above parking) or the design with the apartments on the outside and the parking on the inside.

I agree it seems crazy how many surface lots there are in major cities. But in cities with basically infinite room to grow like Houston and Atlanta I guess the land never really gets that expensive the way it does on cities that have physical constraints like San Francisco and NYC. LA is a little bit in between in that it has a LOT of room, but has filled most of it already.

[dubu]

thats p ugly imo. but if you have to make use of expensive freeways. no parking then no cars

[digitallagasse]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

Isn't that how basically every apartment complex is? 90% of the apartments I see are either that design (apartments above parking) or the design with the apartments on the outside and the parking on the inside.

I agree it seems crazy how many surface lots there are in major cities. But in cities with basically infinite room to grow like Houston and Atlanta I guess the land never really gets that expensive the way it does on cities that have physical constraints like San Francisco and NYC. LA is a little bit in between in that it has a LOT of room, but has filled most of it already.

I think SoCal is an example as to both the limits of sprawl and new patterns that develop from it. SoCal did have a huge amount of land in which to sprawl. Granted that did lead to some physical constraints such as mountains and ocean the area in which it could grow is still very large. Drive until you can buy only works to a point. The new development pattern to help with that is multi nodal job centers dispersed in the outward sprawl. Distance to all those centers can still demand a premium.

You are correct on how new apartments are being built. It is a reasonable way to replace a service lot while bringing more density to an auto focused built form. The added density brings the possibility of the future development to replace these have less or no parking. That assumes transit and or walking was built up and made possible. At some point density makes getting around without a car possibly better than having one if the built form makes other options viable.

With the cost of housing so high in SoCal all those service lots are a very expensive premium. Car traffic is partially dependent on built density being below a certain point. If the built form is still car dependent and density goes beyond a certain point traffic builds to a standstill. So even developing the surface lots with housing that has parking built in could create this tipping point or get closer to it depending on the lot.

Thankfully transit is being built up at the same time these developments are happening. The transition point will still likely be painful but worth it.