CHICAGO | Grant Park 3 & 4 | (3) 790' - 73 FLOORS | (4) 900' - 83 FLOORS NEVER BUILT

[samoen313]

Originally Posted by Eventually...Chicago

I showed the rendering to a few of my other friends and between us all we have at least 10 degrees in art, architecture or urban planning and generally we all thought the building was pretty cool. It's no tribune building, but again residential buildings are usually nothing special.

And i think it is terribly misguided to hope that a 50+ story residential building doesn't get built just so we can hope for a better design. The positive impact all those new residents will have would justify the ugliest building out there.

Not that these two are mutually exclusive, but sometimes i think chicago gets too wrapped up in trying to look like a great city rather than simply being a great city.

it is all truly a matter of taste. my critique of it from an architectural standpoint is that because of its material inadequacy and weird proportions, i feel like the design process consisted of a bunch of guys sitting around saying things like:

"wouldn't it look cool if we did this?"
"we should add another curve there. that would look pretty cool."
"which color should we make it? i think blue would look cool, but green could look pretty interesting too."
"it's kind of boxy right here. what shape do you think we could make it so it would look cooler?"

etc.
i have yet to see any hard evidence that the main design goal of this building was anything besides making something tall with curves so that it would tie in loosely with omp and ompw, but to use forms that hadn't yet been used on the previous two buildings. that is my assessment. if there was something more intelligent going on in design, you can make me eat my words until i die like the glutton in se7en. for a purely aesthetic standpoint, it's just very forgettable. top heavy and forgettable. but i know there are lots of folk that like it. i like museum plaza in louisville and from that i know i'm often in the minority on an opinion of a building.

also, i hope this thing gets built by all means. even with the so-so design, the only factor that would make me stand in front of a bulldozer would be if it was done by lagrange and had beige pre-cast cladding. i was more saying, if the housing market does put a damper on this thing temporarily (i doubt that even with a slowdown in the market, they would cancel this and never revive any plans, they'd probably just give the market a year or two to smooth out its feathers before going ahead) perhaps this could get a tweaked or substantially altered design for the better.

[honte]

^ Don't you think it's probably view-driven, like Aqua? The views from those crazy cantilevers are going to be pretty interesting.

Just playing devil's advocate: Obviously, if this were their motivation, they did it much less rigorously than Studio Gang. And I agree 100% that the design feels slapped-together and interested in a "wow factor" more so than overall composition.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by samoen313

"wouldn't it look cool if we did this?"
"we should add another curve there. that would look pretty cool."
"which color should we make it? i think blue would look cool, but green could look pretty interesting too."
"it's kind of boxy right here. what shape do you think we could make it so it would look cooler?"

you rule.

[James2390]

This is a great building, though it's a little too "different" for my tastes. It's still a fantastic addition to the Chicago skyline, however.

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by honte

^ Don't you think it's probably view-driven, like Aqua? The views from those crazy cantilevers are going to be pretty interesting.

Just playing devil's advocate: Obviously, if this were their motivation, they did it much less rigorously than Studio Gang. And I agree 100% that the design feels slapped-together and interested in a "wow factor" more so than overall composition.

This was not the case. All the balconies are simply staggered horizontally, they remain in the same vertical columns, hence no variation in the views. Also, Aqua is surrounded by tall buildings. GP3 is ON the park.

Originally Posted by AdrianXSands

you rule.

Yes. Its exactly why this building is not cohesive, lacks direction, and should be drastically redesigned.

[honte]

Originally Posted by Alliance

This was not the case. All the balconies are simply staggered horizontally, they remain in the same vertical columns, hence no variation in the views. Also, Aqua is surrounded by tall buildings. GP3 is ON the park.

No, to make a 1:1 comparison to Aqua wasn't the point. I wasn't talking about balconies or views around buildings. The idea of my post was that the cantilevers allow side-facing units to project outward, giving them unique vantages. The might be particularly useful for the high floors that have east-facing units, to give them better views of the park. It's not a great justification, but I think the designers could make that argument.

[Juan_M2118]

so are these towers going up?

[intrepidDesign]

I think GP3 looks good, until you get about 1/3 the way up and the whole thing starts to bend out. It makes the whole thing look top heavy and visually encroaches on OMPW's space. I think this space would be better suited for a revived Park Michigan or Canyon Ranch.

[Metranite]

Originally Posted by Juan_M2118

so are these towers going up?

Hopefully not. These prime locations should be saved until the next boom when maybe something better comes along.

[Siriusly]

Originally Posted by Metranite

Hopefully not. These prime locations should be saved until the next boom when maybe something better comes along.

Generally speaking, how long is it between booms, I just became a skyscraper enthusiast in 2004... Will it take decades?

[Nowhereman1280]

Real estate seems to run on a cycle of ~10 years... We are nearing the bottom of the trough, so in a year or two we will begin to see another torrent of new proposals and the likes, but until then it will be rough. Luckily we already have lots of new buildings under construction to watch!

[Siriusly]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Real estate seems to run on a cycle of ~10 years... We are nearing the bottom of the trough, so in a year or two we will begin to see another torrent of new proposals and the likes, but until then it will be rough. Luckily we already have lots of new buildings under construction to watch!

Thanks... When I first started lurking here in '04-'05 it seemed like there was a new proposal every day, It's been slow for the last year or so...

[Juan_M2118]

Originally Posted by Metranite

Hopefully not. These prime locations should be saved until the next boom when maybe something better comes along.

Well that's sad since i really like this building,, but if it takes about 3-5 years to propose something way better,, HECKKKK,, we can surely wait,, , the next boom, like someone said above, will be in a couple years, 2-5, but like that person said, we are very intertained by ALL OF THESE buildings going up already, bbut i guess we have to wait until the NEXT BIG THING is proposed, hopefully in less than 5 years, most likely less since i heard the economy could go GREATTT in a year or two...

[GregBear24]

I hope gp3 doesn't get built- it's a miserable design. We can still hold out some hope that gp4 will be good though, and hopefully a supertall. I assume you're talking about gp3, alliance, and I agree that it's awful. I don't mind ompw though, because it complements omp fairly well.

[Alliance]

Yeah. The massing of GP4 looks encouraging, but if they use the same dam glass styles again...

GP3 is a clear mistake, a Grand Plaza for the Park.

[The Pimp]

Well...thank god you're not building these projects. I like the designs and sincerely hope they get built.

[murdoc9]

Originally Posted by The Pimp

Well...thank god you're not building these projects. I like the designs and sincerely hope they get built.

I agree with the pimp (I find myself saying that a lot in daily life). Anyways, I think this project is fantastic. The buildings are definitely very Dubaiesque, and although they would not be as fitting in the financial district, I think the location they picked is perfect for that style of design. I really like how it is stretching the skyline and when you are looking at it from the Shedd Aquarium or some other place further south it looks friggin huge. As far as hoping for something better if this falls through, I think you're going to be waiting for a long time. Projects of this magnitude, in locations such as this tend to get going just as the market starts to take a dump - as they are conceived at the peak of the cycle and reflect what is later seen as overconfidence in the market. Anyone know how many of the units have been sold yet? (I apologize if this was addressed some pages back, I haven't scrolled back all the pages)

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Real estate seems to run on a cycle of ~10 years... We are nearing the bottom of the trough, so in a year or two we will begin to see another torrent of new proposals and the likes, but until then it will be rough. Luckily we already have lots of new buildings under construction to watch!

There are a lot of real estate cycles, and they don't necessarily run in sync with each other.

Residential boom/bust cycles seem to run in something around a 10-year cycle, trough-to-peak and vice-versa. This cycle will be a little different, because of the height of the peak, so I'd expect a deeper trough, and possibly a more drawn-out trough. I also don't think we're in the nadir of things yet - we're definitely headed into the trough, but I don't think we'll bottom out for another 12, maybe even 18 months. Others are more optimistic - I am not, because the fundamentals simply don't support optimism.

Commercial cycles are more linked to the overall economy, but they seem to run in cycles that are slightly longer than residential ones, maybe 12-15 year cycles.

Prior to the boom from about 2000-2007 (it ended last year, we just haven't finished building out what got started), the last boom ended in the early 1990s with the recession brought on by Gulf War I and compounded by the Russian debt crisis.

As the dust settles on this boom - and it will - I wouldn't expect to see Big Projects really get traction again for 4-8 years while we work our way through the nadir of the cycle.

In the case of Chicago, there are a few potential counterpoints worth mentioning, however:

1) The city center is reaching a critical mass of attraction on the residential front, possibly giving it the potential to continue to build out even as the overall regional market remains soft. Balancing against this is that if the City can't attract businesses to the Loop and Michigan Avenue employment districts, one big facet of the downtown attraction will diminish as area jobs dry up.

2) If Chicago were to win the Olympics, there would be additional investment downtown, and there would be a lot of free advertising involved, bolstering interest specifically in downtown for people new to the region. That additional draw could help keep downtown's market more stable than other parts of the area. This is balanced against the fact that it's still a BIG "if," and also against the fact that we have historic records worth of unsold inventory downtown still.

3) Since both of these sites are part of a long-term planned development, they could be (will be?) planned and ready to go as soon as the market is ready to absorb them. That would mean even if they didn't get started in this boom, they could be among the first new towers to be launched as the cycle begins to gear up again.

That's my 2 cents on boom cycles in Chicago real estate ... I'm not an expert, just an observant, self-educated on the subject resident with a vested interest in downtown residential real estate. :-)

[Chicagoguy]

So I have a few questions that I am curious to have answered. First, when is groundbreaking scheduled to begin on GP3? I have heard many rumors that they might break ground by years end or possibly beginning of 2009?

Also reguarding the park and covering the tracks, that has been something I have been encouraging friends in high places to fight for as well, I think make the park feel more like a park rather than skattered areas of grass and baseball fields would bring more attention to it. I think making it more dense with trees would also help its look. Does anyone know of nay updates on the park?

And Finally...everyone is talking as if the Park Michigan project is completely dead when last I heard there just had trouble with the company they hired to market and represent them and there is some lawsuit going on, but they are still going to try to continue on with selling of units and promoting the Park Michigan by the end of this year. This is one of my favorite projects and I truly think this one needs to get built. With the GP Towers being built there is going to be a large gape in the skyline from the sears tower to the Grant Park Towers...we need something there in the middle to help bridge the gap a little, otherwise when viewed from the east side is will not look at continuous.

[Chicagoguy]

I also wanted to add that I like the design for the south border of Grant Park, I like that they plan to light up the tops of the OMP. I think that GP3 would look so much better if they accented the edges at night with lighting almost like they do with the Smurfit-Stone Building, only running the lighting all the way down the sides. I think it would go great with the modern look that the south edge of Grant Park is going for.