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  #221  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2013, 2:20 AM
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  #222  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2013, 4:04 AM
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New Pictures Looking great!
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  #223  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2013, 12:55 PM
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Those are my favorite pictures of the building to date!
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  #224  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2013, 12:56 PM
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It looks sssooo good. And these are just construction lights inside. I can't wait to see what this one, and 351, will look like with actual interior lighting.
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  #225  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
It looks sssooo good. And these are just construction lights inside. I can't wait to see what this one, and 351, will look like with actual interior lighting.
Neither can I! I imagine by the end of the summer we will be able to see that! Can't wait

Although, I still want to see more proposals soon because I do not want the construction boom to end at 351, deacon, hilton, and Fortis! I want to see the possible Fortis proposal, and the (fictional?) 23!
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  #226  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 9:33 PM
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Fortis:

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  #227  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2013, 11:33 PM
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Can you get many views from different points on Water Street?

It looks great to see it from that point of view.
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  #228  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 4:54 AM
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^ Very cool shot Signal, interesting to see how the new structures relate to different points at street level.
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  #229  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 11:41 AM
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Cool to see so many progress photos.

I am pretty happy with the design architecturally. However, in terms of urban design, this project is a disaster. The way the building is integrated with the City is abysmal. It has an entrance on one side, it's set-back from the street, etc.

The parking lot is also a problem, but I understand that this is the City's doing.

I am happy with the design but it really isn't good enough. This area is still going to be horrifically unwalkable. Whole facades are to the street with absolutely no activation of the street scape.
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  #230  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 11:42 AM
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Are there any plans/site plans available? Renderings are great to get the feel of the space, but they can be overly seductive and misleading. A plan really doesn't lie.
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  #231  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 11:53 AM
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I don't have the plans, sorry, but I'm sure someone will post them eventually.

I agree the interaction with the street is a problem - but it's just so pretty! I'm curious to see what's going to be parking and what's going to be green space around the base of the structure. It could be quite nice if there are some trees, etc.

And, as we develop the Downtown West End, it will be nice to have a few larger buildings set back from the street like this. It'll maintain a little breathing room.

This building also has the benefit of the Newman Wine Vaults strip of heritage buildings in front of it - so that area is walkable. And Springdale Street is very walkable - there's just nothing there of public interest/engagement.

So this building, I think... it doesn't add much in terms of interaction with the street, but it detracts from it far less than you might think. Especially with Hamilton Avenue and the... should we call it an interchange?... taking up the whole backside of it.

If the Hilton is built up the sidewalk just across New Gower... these two buildings combined will bring a LOT more pedestrian traffic to the area, then it will be easier, I think/hope, to secure proper street interaction from future proposals.
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  #232  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
Cool to see so many progress photos.

I am pretty happy with the design architecturally. However, in terms of urban design, this project is a disaster. The way the building is integrated with the City is abysmal. It has an entrance on one side, it's set-back from the street, etc.

The parking lot is also a problem, but I understand that this is the City's doing.

I am happy with the design but it really isn't good enough. This area is still going to be horrifically unwalkable. Whole facades are to the street with absolutely no activation of the street scape.
I think, given the area, they've done the best they can. The vehicular entrance to the building had to be on Hamilton, IMO, because their lot simply doesn't have the street-frontage on Springdale. If you look at their site on MapCentre, you'll see what I mean. There is an old building on the corner of Springdale / New Gower (across from the rowhouses you point out in another thread) that is not part of the Fortis Property. With this, I think they could have done more for street-level frontage. However, without it, they have to put vehicular access on Hamilton. I think they are going for pedestrian access / some sort of courtyard on Springdale, but I could be wrong. It's unfortunate, but its the way the survey is. I guess maybe they could have done what you suggest with a different building design, but I'm quite pleased with what they came up with, and I really don't think the building is set too far back as to make the area feel empty. Especially if they do the front pedestrian entrance correctly.

Obviously, being pressed up against the sidewalk to encourage walkability is ideal, but I think it was a real challenge with this project.
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  #233  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:23 PM
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NO new design is right, Copes. This is one of my favourite buildings in the city.

Even...

*deep breath*

...including heritage ones.
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  #234  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
NO new design is right, Copes. This is one of my favourite buildings in the city.

Even...

*deep breath*

...including heritage ones.
I'm certainly not preaching for a new design. I love this project.
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  #235  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
Are there any plans/site plans available? Renderings are great to get the feel of the space, but they can be overly seductive and misleading. A plan really doesn't lie.

Here is the site plan from the land use assessment:



The parking to the left is a 3 level structure connected to parking under the building.
The top of the parking structure will be just above grade at New Gower St.
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  #236  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:45 PM
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Oh, I know... I was agreeing.
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  #237  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Here is the site plan from the land use assessment:



The parking to the left is a 3 level structure connected to parking under the building.
The top of the parking structure will be just above grade at New Gower St.
I knew you'd be the one who had this, Architype. Thank you for sharing.

I like the site plan - it's interesting, especially since it doesn't front onto Water Street. It's kind of cool. It'll be all sandwiched in eventually.

I wish the parkade to the left was just the base of a second tower. It is unfortunate that you'll have a visible parking lot view from New Gower.

But it's better than an empty lot and it is a HUGE step toward filling in our Downtown West End. I'm beyond excited.

And I LOVE how the parking along the Water Street side of the building will be hidden from any possible view in that area. Even the Springdale-facing side will look like building and green space from the street. It's excellent.

I can't WAIT until we start seeing what all this increased foot traffic from the employees in these buildings will enable us to do in these areas.

That row of slum houses opposite the building on Springdale, for example, will probably go.
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  #238  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:56 PM
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I wish the parkade to the left was just the base of a second tower. It is unfortunate that you'll have a visible parking lot view from New Gower.
It may provide space for a possible future expansion, although that has never been mentioned. The intention of the design was not to provide much of an interaction with the street itself unfortunately, but more as formal entrance with some green space, although as a tower, it will be very visible from Water Street. Other than that, the building is somewhat oriented towards the harbour and the view, and the unusual configuration is partly a response to the oddly shaped lot. That being said, the site could have accommodated at least three or four times the floor space than the building will have. The FAR is only about 1.6, a relatively low density for a downtown area (floor area for the FAR does not include parking).

Last edited by Architype; Mar 1, 2013 at 2:09 PM.
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  #239  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
It may provide space for a possible future expansion, although that has never been mentioned. The intention of the design was not to provide much of an interaction with the street itself unfortunately, but more as formal entrance with some green space, although as a tower, it will be very visible from Water Street. Other than that, the building is somewhat oriented towards the harbour and the view, and the unusual configuration is partly a response to the oddly shaped lot.
That practically makes Fortis Place a heritage building, following a proud St. John's tradition.

1800s: Roman Catholic Church ignores religious rules to orient the Basilica so that it faced out through the Narrows, creating an awkward lot and awkwardly positioned building that proved genius.

2000s: Fortis ignores urban planning rules to orient Fortis Place so that it faces the harbour, creating an awkward lot and awkwardly positioned building that WILL prove genius. I have faith ().
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  #240  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2013, 12:57 PM
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Last edited by SignalHillHiker; Mar 5, 2013 at 1:12 PM.
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