Sports in Austin

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by abigdeal

I'm gonna disagree here and say that good PR folks would recommend that they get ahead out of the message and announce their plans, whatever they are, rather than waiting until the narrative starts to turn against them. Which is what happened here.

This.

A lot of PSV’s slide was preventable.

[Novacek]

Columbus seems to be trying to burn the Crew's bridges behind them.

https://www.statesman.com/sports/soc...jDZzWgnHm3WJL/


If Precourt _didn't_ want to move before, this certainly won't make him feel welcome.

[Novacek]

Precourt to focus on McKalla Place as potential stadium site

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Columbus seems to be trying to burn the Crew's bridges behind them.

https://www.statesman.com/sports/soc...jDZzWgnHm3WJL/


If Precourt _didn't_ want to move before, this certainly won't make him feel welcome.

I saw that. However, I don't think it can hold up in court. Too many holes.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Precourt to focus on McKalla Place as potential stadium site

Great news. City will need a few months for community engagement. Should give PSV to sort out financing. Very happy to see they think they can get the money for it.

[smith_atx]

If this means it's more likely we get them team, then I suppose I'm good with this. As a south Austin resident, it'll mean I go to fewer games though.

[abigdeal]

Originally Posted by smith_atx

If this means it's more likely we get them team, then I suppose I'm good with this. As a south Austin resident, it'll mean I go to fewer games though.

This means it's a done deal.

[The ATX]

The stadium along with Broadmoor and a few other projects will help turn the Domain area into a true "uptown" for Austin. Maybe it should be marketed as Austin's Uptown instead of that "second downtown" moniker.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by The ATX

The stadium along with Broadmoor and a few other projects will help turn the Domain area into a true "uptown" for Austin. Maybe it should be marketed as Austin's Uptown instead of that "second downtown" moniker.

It's still a mall masquerading as urban. I like the Domain, I probably wind up there twice a month anyway for shopping purposes. I find it a very pleasant place to shop that has a handful of good entertainment options (among a ton of crappy chains) But the fact remains that everyone drives to the domain and parks their car in one of 80 giant parking garages and with the exception of the North Side there is no attempt to make it look like anything other than a mall that is situated alongside a major highway. And *this* isn't even all that close or walkable from that.

A stadium in this area is far more likely to be a stadium in the middle of parking lots like every other shitty suburban stadium in America and will likely bring with it all of the developments and density that the AT&T center brought San Antonio.

I get why it's happening, but we had an opportunity for a smartly designed stadium integrated with the heart of the city in a truly walkable area with tons of entertainment facilities and to really show off the heart of what makes Austin Austin with the stadium, and we've blow it. Instead we're showing off a Simon mall.

I'm happy this means we're very likely getting a team, but this was bungled by all parties involved and we're getting the least good option for the city.

And unless the city steps in and demands integration with density (i.e. ground floor retail along the edge of the stadium, integrated apartments/housing, no surface parking lots, a commuter rail stop) this could have a chilling effect on density right around the stadium.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

It's still a mall masquerading as urban. I like the Domain, I probably wind up there twice a month anyway for shopping purposes. I find it a very pleasant place to shop that has a handful of good entertainment options (among a ton of crappy chains) But the fact remains that everyone drives to the domain and parks their car in one of 80 giant parking garages and with the exception of the North Side there is no attempt to make it look like anything other than a mall that is situated alongside a major highway. And *this* isn't even all that close or walkable from that.

As I like to keep stressing, people shouldn't conflate "The Domain" with the larger overall North Burnet Gateway area (you're not the only one StoOgE).

The Domain pre-dates the NBG regulating plan, and doesn't have the same urban design standards as the rest of NGB.

Originally Posted by StoOgE

A stadium in this area is far more likely to be a stadium in the middle of parking lots like every other shitty suburban stadium in America and will likely bring with it all of the developments and density that the AT&T center brought San Antonio.

The stadium here is _following_ the development and density, not bringing it.

Originally Posted by StoOgE

I get why it's happening, but we had an opportunity for a smartly designed stadium integrated with the heart of the city in a truly walkable area with tons of entertainment facilities and to really show off the heart of what makes Austin Austin with the stadium, and we've blow it. Instead we're showing off a Simon mall.

Except Butler wasn't integrated with the heart of the city. Sure, it had a nice _view_ of Downtown, but to actually get there it was quite a bit out of the way.

Originally Posted by StoOgE

I'm happy this means we're very likely getting a team, but this was bungled by all parties involved and we're getting the least good option for the city.

In many, many ways McKalla (especially long term), is a much better option than Butler.

McKalla will have greater surrounding residential and commercial density. McKalla will have _much_ better transit access.

Butler had the river to one side, and the park on another. Then a small strip of density, and then the (low density) Zilker neighborhood.

Originally Posted by StoOgE

And unless the city steps in and demands integration with density (i.e. ground floor retail along the edge of the stadium, integrated apartments/housing, no surface parking lots, a commuter rail stop) this could have a chilling effect on density right around the stadium.

It'll be interesting to see how a stadium design interfaces with the existing urban design standards of NBG. And yes, I'm definitely hoping for a relocation of the rail stop.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

It's still a mall masquerading as urban. I like the Domain, I probably wind up there twice a month anyway for shopping purposes. I find it a very pleasant place to shop that has a handful of good entertainment options (among a ton of crappy chains) But the fact remains that everyone drives to the domain and parks their car in one of 80 giant parking garages and with the exception of the North Side there is no attempt to make it look like anything other than a mall that is situated alongside a major highway. And *this* isn't even all that close or walkable from that.

A stadium in this area is far more likely to be a stadium in the middle of parking lots like every other shitty suburban stadium in America and will likely bring with it all of the developments and density that the AT&T center brought San Antonio.

I get why it's happening, but we had an opportunity for a smartly designed stadium integrated with the heart of the city in a truly walkable area with tons of entertainment facilities and to really show off the heart of what makes Austin Austin with the stadium, and we've blow it. Instead we're showing off a Simon mall.

I'm happy this means we're very likely getting a team, but this was bungled by all parties involved and we're getting the least good option for the city.

And unless the city steps in and demands integration with density (i.e. ground floor retail along the edge of the stadium, integrated apartments/housing, no surface parking lots, a commuter rail stop) this could have a chilling effect on density right around the stadium.

I agree that the area needs more help to truly make it a "second downtown" or "uptown". Some downtown-like zoning changes need to be put in place. It needs to all be tied together to make it more urban. Allow for taller, greater density, great streets, etc. As it is, it will become a hodge-podge of sorta urban islands that are sorta close to each other.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by paul78701

Some downtown-like zoning changes need to be put in place.

ftp://ftp.ci.austin.tx.us/npzd/Austi...g_reg_plan.pdf

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

It's still a mall masquerading as urban.

Currently, it is just a mall masquerading as urban. I was referring to the future when the zoning is changed to allow for areas with 308' and 360' buildings.

[abigdeal]

After spending a lot of time over the last couple months discussing this issue with the “average voter,” there is no way this was happening on parkland. McKalla is a heck of a lot better than COTA, Cedar Park, Round Rock, SE Austin or any of the other random places being thrown out there by Council and the general public.

[clubtokyo]

Isnt the Dallas team in Frisco or something? I am good with the McKalla site.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by abigdeal

After spending a lot of time over the last couple months discussing this issue with the “average voter,” there is no way this was happening on parkland. McKalla is a heck of a lot better than COTA, Cedar Park, Round Rock, SE Austin or any of the other random places being thrown out there by Council and the general public.

I agree with this. This is the least-bad politically acceptable option.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Currently, it is just a mall masquerading as urban. I was referring to the future when the zoning is changed to allow for areas with 308' and 360' buildings.

Yeah, but how is a giant surface parking lot with a stadium in the middle going to play with that? The city needs to be *very* demanding about layout here.

The upside of parkland was going to be that they couldn't come in and dump 8 parking garages around the stadium. McKalla is going to make it really easy to dump a stadium in a parking lot and call it a day.

And yeah, I agree this is better than "not in town at all", but I would have rather we found something closer in where there is an actual urban core.

Designing a stadium to integrate into the area is one thing. Asking an undeveloped area to integrate into a stadium is another.

[ClendonRoss]

I badly wanted it to be Butler (I live a couple of blocks from there), but that obviously was politically untenable, so I'm OK with McKalla if it means the deal gets done. This is probably Austin's only realistic shot at a top tier team in any professional sport for the foreseeable future, so fingers crossed Pool or other council members don't F it up AND that Precourt provides a compelling community benefits package.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Yeah, but how is a giant surface parking lot with a stadium in the middle going to play with that? The city needs to be *very* demanding about layout here.

The upside of parkland was going to be that they couldn't come in and dump 8 parking garages around the stadium. McKalla is going to make it really easy to dump a stadium in a parking lot and call it a day.

Operating under the assumption that the McKalla site will be rezoned to actual NBG zoning (it's not currently, it's Limited Industrial):

There are very specific building placement and parking standards in the NBG regulating plan. An island in a sea of surface parking lots seems to be disallowed (from my reading).

I think a question still outstanding is how much of the McKalla site Precourt would have control over, and what the city does with the balance (if any).

[abigdeal]

I'm really hoping that an upside of this vs. the park locations will be the opportunity for additional development on the property. Is there another city that's done something like this and done it right? Arlington is my only frame of reference and it's terrible.