The Great Canadian Practice your French Thread

[lio45]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

for my own sanity i have been telling my head that
qu'est-ce que = what is it that
and for qu'est-ce qui i just remember the phrase qu'est-ce qui ne va pas - whats wrong

sorts it into things and persons. probably not official but it keeps me sane.

also quoi de neuf is my new fav phrase.

Actually that's a pretty good idea... it just happens that in English you can shorten that to just "what" in most if not all cases, but the whole thing does translate to that.
("what is it that you're doing" -> "what are you doing")

also, more literally, same thing with the other version:
"qu'est-ce qui ne va pas" = "what is it that is wrong"

and then just remember that qui or que is decided by whether it's subject or object. (Again, no French speaker ever thinks about that; it will come naturally to you too, eventually.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

For me, I've never even heard of qu'est-ce qui until this year.

And about quoi de neuf...

Once I said that to a friend, then she was like, "Wow that's a very old way of saying it."

I was like, "How do you say it now then?"

She was like, "Qui se passe".

Quoi de neuf = what's up or what's new

"Qui se passe" doesn't work as a standalone expression.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually that's a pretty good idea... it just happens that in English you can shorten that to just "what" in most if not all cases, but the whole thing does translate to that.
("what is it that you're doing" -> "what are you doing")

also, more literally, same thing with the other version:
"qu'est-ce qui ne va pas" = "what is it that is wrong"

and then just remember that qui or que is decided by whether it's subject or object. (Again, no French speaker ever thinks about that; it will come naturally to you too, eventually.)

It's often hard to remember the rule so you can explain it to someone, as it's so innate.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quoi de neuf = what's up or what's new

"Qui se passe" doesn't work as a standalone expression.

My bad she actually said "ke se passe".

[mintzilla]

^^^ you know what i noticed for the first time now that i am making a proper effort in french.

previously i did not know grammar at all. like i knew of grammar, but if you asked me a specific question on grammar i would draw a blank. a question like " what is the present participle of the verb 'to run'" would never be important in english life but to follow the rules of french i need to know stuff like that.

a good amount of my time has actually been learning english grammar.

unfortunately i dont have anyone to practice speaking french with so most of my effort is on reading comprehension (i turn all my video game language settings to french)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Ps: As for lio45's comment, it took me a good 5 minutes to get most of it. In short, French words that begin with an h that used to make a sounds (until 17th or 18th century) originate in German (latinized), whereas the rest is from Latin.

What you need to know is that the 'h' is always silent. I guess that was your mistake.

'h' muet = silent, doesn't shield from liaison.

'h' aspiré = silent, shields from liaison.

And as to "how do you know which is which?", well, if the word (or rather, its ancestor) used to be pronounced without the 'h' sound in the very early middle ages, then that h is a mute one, and if on the other hand the word came into the language later (from Frankish in most cases), then initially the 'h' was pronounced and the leftover from that is that it's preventing the liaison.

I imagine that if you happen to speak Spanish or German, you can use that to forecast - if the word has a close relative in Spanish (further clue - that near twin almost certainly will start without the h) then it's a h muet; if the word has a close relative in German, it's a h aspiré.

But yeah, you just have to know. No way around it, really.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's often hard to remember the rule so you can explain it to someone, as it's so innate.

Exactly. For that reason, I've always believed that an Anglo who went on to master French very well is almost certainly going to be a better teacher for a fellow Anglo than native speakers like us.

We're the very best at immediately telling 'that's correct' and 'no, that's not correct' without a doubt, but when it comes to explaining why......

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

^^^ you know what i noticed for the first time now that i am making a proper effort in french.

previously i did not know grammar at all. like i knew of grammar, but if you asked me a specific question on grammar i would draw a blank. a question like " what is the present participle of the verb 'to run'" would never be important in english life but to follow the rules of french i need to know stuff like that.

a good amount of my time has actually been learning english grammar.

unfortunately i dont have anyone to practice speaking french with so most of my effort is on reading comprehension (i turn all my video game language settings to french)

Is English grammar even taught at school anymore?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by lio45

What you need to know is that the 'h' is always silent. I guess that was your mistake.

'h' muet = silent, doesn't shield from liaison.

'h' aspiré = silent, shields from liaison.

And as to "how do you know which is which?", well, if the word (or rather, its ancestor) used to be pronounced without the 'h' sound in the very early middle ages, then that h is a mute one, and if on the other hand the word came into the language later (from Frankish in most cases), then initially the 'h' was pronounced and the leftover from that is that it's preventing the liaison.

I imagine that if you happen to speak Spanish or German, you can use that to forecast - if the word has a close relative in Spanish (further clue - that near twin almost certainly will start without the h) then it's a h muet; if the word has a close relative in German, it's a h aspiré.

But yeah, you just have to know. No way around it, really.

Thanks. I finally get it.

Too bad I don't know either Spanish or German, but that's okay.

Now, when I try to say la Haute Vallée des Outaouais* without the h sound, it actually sounds so much better.

*Is that how people say "Upper Ottawa Valley" in French? Or should it be la Vallée des Hauts Outaouais?
@ kwoldtimer: I went over it in English 10, but it was really brief.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

(i turn all my video game language settings to french)

Good idea!
My current bedside reading is in Spanish for that reason. Been like that for years now. (Exceptions made whenever I find something in French or English that's really worthy of being on the To Read list.)

I lived in Germany for an entire summer and when I got back home I didn't want to lose it all, so for a couple years all my video game language settings were set to German. Works well to try to keep it active.

Over a decade later... I can still decipher written language decently well, but don't ask me to generate content (written or spoken).

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by lio45

Good idea!
My current bedside reading is in Spanish for that reason.

Is that for living in Florida (although only briefly)?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Is that for living in Florida (although only briefly)?

Actually no, it's due mostly to, a few years ago, having filled up my old, run down, downtown Sherbrooke buildings with unilingual Latino tenants who are much better tenants (less entitled, a lot less complaints) than Québécois welfare bums. It was a great way to quickly "fix" the main downside of buildings acquired for a song because they had the main flaw of being full of bad tenants.

There are lots of Latinos in Sherbrooke and they tend to hang out together so through word of mouth it really spread that I was a friendly and cool landlord, and I ended up with a portfolio of older properties that kinda had to be run in Spanish. It's not a very difficult language so I picked it up pretty quickly. I have a couple tenants left from that era, still. But I don't manage the buildings as directly as I used to anyway.

My roofer and my plumber in FL are Spanish-speaking so it's still useful today. But originally it had nothing to do with Florida, and I frankly wouldn't say I need it (in a mandatory way) over there (as nearly everyone in my area understands at least a bit of English). The reason I want to keep it active is principle - I dislike the idea of losing any skill I (used to) have.

[Dengler Avenue]

I sure hope your tenants end up learning French too.

Ps: Like I asked in an earlier comment, is (la) Vallée des Hauts Outaouais a thing in Québécois French? I was trying to say "Upper Ottawa Valley".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I sure hope your tenants end up learning French too.

Ps: Like I asked in an earlier comment, is (la) Vallée des Hauts Outaouais a thing in Québécois French? I was trying to say "Upper Ottawa Valley".

Doesn't sound elegant, but le Haut-Outaouais? The moniker is only applied to the Ontario side, right?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Doesn't sound elegant, but le Haut-Outaouais? The moniker is only applied to the Ontario side, right?

UOV? Apparently.
Edit: Actually, doesn’t that term refer to the flat land around Ottawa River from Ottawa to Pembroke plus Petawawa, Chalk River and Deep River?

But I did realize that Outaouais probably only refers to the QC side (Ottawa River/Rivière des Outaouais being the only exception).

[Acajack]

I am sure that there is a French term that government geographers use for the Upper Ottawa Valley, but I've never heard anything used for it in French. There are very few francophones there and I'd venture if our media had to refer to it they'd say "le comté de Renfrew" or "la région de Pembroke".

If you were to say "Haut-Outaouais" many people would assume you're talking about the Maniwaki area and just got mixed up with the very commonly used name for that region, which is "la Haute-Gatineau". Which I guess would be the Upper Gatineau Valley in English.

Of course across the river from the Upper Ottawa Valley is Quebec, which is referred to as "le Pontiac" in French, and "Pontiac County" in English.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

UOV? Apparently.
Edit: Actually, doesn’t that term refer to the flat land around Ottawa River from Ottawa to Pembroke plus Petawawa, Chalk River and Deep River?

But I did realize that Outaouais probably only refers to the QC side (Ottawa River/Rivière des Outaouais being the only exception).

At one point given that the name of the river is Outaouais in French regardless of which side of it you're on, there was an attempt by the local francophone media to have the Outaouais moniker apply to both sides, and you'd hear "l'Outaouais québécois et ontarien" or simply "l'Outaouais québécois" and "l'Outaouais ontarien".

In terms of marketing you could then say "le son de l'Outaouais", "les nouvelles de l'Outaouais", "voici ce qui se passe en Outaouais", "gens de l'Outaouais", etc.

But it never really took off for the Ontario side of the river.

So now of course "Ottawa" is used to refer to Ottawa, and the rural areas to the east are either "Prescott-Russell" or "l'Est ontarien" (Eastern Ontario). Eastern Ontario is in fact a lot bigger than Prescott-Russell but when francophone media use that term it's clearly Prescott-Russell they're talking about - and maybe Cornwall sometimes. But not Kemptville, Winchester or Morrisburg.

As a result of all this the term "Outaouais québécois" which used to be very common has now faded from use and it's really just "Outaouais" that you hear, and it's only the Quebec side of the river that is meant by that.

Another thing is that "Outaouais" is a masculine regional name, whereas "Gatineau" is a feminine regional name. Hence "Outaouais québécois" vs. "Haute-Gatineau".

[Dengler Avenue]

Huh okay...

I thought the strip of Renfrew County in UOV would also be bilingual just because of its proximity to Québec (although there are only 3 crossings between Renfrew and Pontiac).

If Renfrew’s largely unilingually English, is it because there’s nothing much going on on the Québec side? I’ve seen the map that, past Pembroke, it’s just mountain range in Québec (hence Zone d’exploitation contrôlée).

Also, how do you know which regional names are masculine or feminine? Some are obvious like Basse-Côte-Nord, Capitale-Nationale, Bas-Saint-Laurent, Laurentides, Lanaudière, Centre-du-Québec and Chaudière-Appalaches. Others (like Estrie, Montérégie, or Abitibi-Témiscamingue)? Not so much.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Also, how do you know which regional names are masculine or feminine? Some are obvious like Basse-Côte-Nord, Capitale-Nationale, Bas-Saint-Laurent, Laurentides, Lanaudière, Centre-du-Québec and Chaudière-Appalaches. Others (like Estrie, Montérégie, or Abitibi-Témiscamingue)? Not so much.

I long thought it was often based on a river's name, or at least what type of river it is. In French a major river is a "fleuve" (and therefore masculine) whereas a smaller river is a rivière (feminine).

So the St. Lawrence is "le St-Laurent" as it's a fleuve. So is "le Saguenay", and further afield "le Nil", "le Rhin", "le Mississippi".

But there is some loose in this: the Seine is "la Seine".

The Gatineau is a rivière and so it's feminine: "la Gatineau".

But the Outaouais (Ottawa River) is a rivière, but it's always referred to in the masculine.

So I don't really know anymore. I go by intuition.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I long thought it was often based on a river's name, or at least what type of river it is. In French a major river is a "fleuve" (and therefore masculine) whereas a smaller river is a rivière (feminine).

So the St. Lawrence is "le St-Laurent" as it's a fleuve. So is "le Saguenay", and further afield "le Nil", "le Rhin", "le Mississippi".

But there is some loose in this: the Seine is "la Seine".

The Gatineau is a rivière and so it's feminine: "la Gatineau".

But the Outaouais (Ottawa River) is a rivière, but it's always referred to in the masculine.

So I don't really know anymore. I go by intuition.

Fair enough. For me, I’d think that, if it ends in -ière, -ie, or -gue (like Témiscamingue), it’s most likely feminine.

As for Laurentides, I know the English name is Laurentian Hills. If you directly translate it back into French, it’ll be like Montagnes Laurentiennes (although I don’t think anyone says that) so it should be feminine. Later on I’ve also seen articles that say “Les Hautes Laurentides”.