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  #241  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:35 AM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
I'm 32.
We're basically the same age; I'm surprised you don't remember seeing or hearing about him as PC leader.
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  #242  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
He was only a Liberal in Quebec because he is a federalist. The Quebec Liberal Party is an umbrella party, just like the Liberals in BC.

Quebec Liberals = federalist so
BC Liberals = anti-NDP
I can't speak to BC but you have it right about Quebec.
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  #243  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:36 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by RueBulmer View Post
It really is harder to peg the major political parties in Quebec. There are PC remnants in the Quebec City area. PQ is traditionally left of centre but they are not above enacting conservative measures to balance a budget, and they are socially conservative when it comes to immigration.
I think the air has been cleared somewhat on Quebec.

Greater Montreal, especially the island, seems to behave not much differently than the GTA or the Vancouver area, strongly supporting social liberalism and moderate economic policies, with strong multiculturalism support.

The hinterlands of Quebec feel like northern Ontario or Atlantic Canada - typically going for interventionist parties. The NDP held their own there for the most part, and the Liberals did quite well there too.

East/central Quebec, including the Quebec City region, isn't really that much different than rural Ontario or even the Prairies - populist-ish on economic policies, conservative on social policies, increasingly out of line with the majority of Canada.
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  #244  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
We're basically the same age; I'm surprised you don't remember seeing or hearing about him as PC leader.
It might have something to do with me not really following politics until high school in the early 00's. That and being out West instead of the Maritimes probably made it so I heard his name less.
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  #245  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I never thought I'd say this but so far I am actually quite impressed with Rona Ambrose.

She definitely seems to be setting a far more conciliatory and moderate tone than what we have been used to from the Conservatives for the last decade. She seems to understand that Canadians not only want a more responsive government but also a more civil tone.

Yes it is early but her distain for the dog fighting mantra of Harper and the far right and alienating policies of the old Reform seem to be serving her well and she is setting a far more receptive tone that will pay dividends that will pay dividends over the long term. I don't think she would make a good PM and would never be voted in as such but she does seem to have been a very good pick for interim leader.

So far I think she is doing surprisingly well............she is setting a positive tone and with her pleasant personality she is just what the Tories needed.
Not enough to convince me to vote for her party but yes, she appears to be much more Canadian than Harper who was so much more alberta. But how is her French?
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  #246  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:54 AM
RueBulmer RueBulmer is offline
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
I think the air has been cleared somewhat on Quebec.

Greater Montreal, especially the island, seems to behave not much differently than the GTA or the Vancouver area, strongly supporting social liberalism and moderate economic policies, with strong multiculturalism support.

The hinterlands of Quebec feel like northern Ontario or Atlantic Canada - typically going for interventionist parties. The NDP held their own there for the most part, and the Liberals did quite well there too.

East/central Quebec, including the Quebec City region, isn't really that much different than rural Ontario or even the Prairies - populist-ish on economic policies, conservative on social policies, increasingly out of line with the majority of Canada.
Yeah. The major cities have more in common with each other than they do with the the more distant areas to which they provide jobs.

But I don't get the Quebec City region and its fixation with PC.

Any insights?
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  #247  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 5:09 AM
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What does everyone think of Patrick Brown, leader of the PC party in Ontario? I actually kind of like him, and he's a true progressive Conservative. I would never vote for him federally but he could be up for the job.
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  #248  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 5:18 AM
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Originally Posted by *Stardust* View Post
What does everyone think of Patrick Brown, leader of the PC party in Ontario? I actually kind of like him, and he's a true progressive Conservative. I would never vote for him federally but he could be up for the job.
I had the impression he was very socially conservative. Feel free to correct me. I don't know much about him.
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  #249  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 5:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RueBulmer View Post
I had the impression he was very socially conservative. Feel free to correct me. I don't know much about him.
Hmm I could be wrong as well. From what I've seen he isn't bad. I'm a westerner though.

Anyone from Ontario able to give us some info?
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  #250  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 5:36 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by RueBulmer View Post
I had the impression he was very socially conservative. Feel free to correct me. I don't know much about him.
As a federal MP he was, but he has taken more liberal positions in the leadership role (probably because that position demands it since he represents the entire province of Ontario and not just one riding).
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  #251  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
As a federal MP he was, but he has taken more liberal positions in the leadership role (probably because that position demands it since he represents the entire province of Ontario and not just one riding).
He is a social and fiscal conservative, but is re-casting himself to be more palatable to Ontarians, since he's seen that the alternative just doesn't sell.
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  #252  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 3:12 PM
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He is a social and fiscal conservative, but is re-casting himself to be more palatable to Ontarians, since he's seen that the alternative just doesn't sell.
As opposed to Peter MacKay (and a lot of other eastern Conservatives) who are genuine progressives, but just gritted their teeth and went along with Harper during his tenure because of his dictatorial style and for the sake of party unity........
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  #253  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 3:15 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
He is a social and fiscal conservative, but is re-casting himself to be more palatable to Ontarians, since he's seen that the alternative just doesn't sell.
What is curious, though, is that the old Barrie riding was not exactly a socially conservative hot spot and there wasn't much benefit to taking those positions. If that riding existed in the 2015 election, the Liberals likely would have won it (the Conservatives held both Barrie area seats, one of them narrowly, because of strong rural support). Still, he needs to shed all ties to break in the GTA and be palatable to them. The risk is that the rural base could consider it a betrayal...
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  #254  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 6:00 PM
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I'm not surprised by Quebec City Conservative support.

Yes, being both in Quebec and a capitol city it certainly is tilted towards government a interventionist mentality, it's not very socially liberal.

I always found the city to be exceptionally parochial, probably more so than any city in the country. Being the heart of French Canada also means the city still very much has a "pure laine" mentality. It means "pure wool" but really is the French version of "old stock". When Harper brought up his "old stock " comment, it may have offended a majority of Canadians but probably gained him a lot of support in Quebec City and much of rural French Canada as that mentality is pervasive.

French Canada is still rife with cultural intolerance and a good old fashion dollop of clear racism.
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  #255  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 6:28 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I'm not surprised by Quebec City Conservative support.

Yes, being both in Quebec and a capitol city it certainly is tilted towards government a interventionist mentality, it's not very socially liberal.

I always found the city to be exceptionally parochial, probably more so than any city in the country. Being the heart of French Canada also means the city still very much has a "pure laine" mentality. It means "pure wool" but really is the French version of "old stock". When Harper brought up his "old stock " comment, it may have offended a majority of Canadians but probably gained him a lot of support in Quebec City and much of rural French Canada as that mentality is pervasive.

French Canada is still rife with cultural intolerance and a good old fashion dollop of clear racism.
In a sense, the Quebec City region reminds me of southwestern Ontario beyond Toronto's orbit these days (a region that is largely a Conservative-NDP battleground with the Liberals mostly in a distant 3rd), in that they are at least somewhat interventionist and anti-free trade but not fans of the "new Canada".

Most likely, if he was running in Canada, Trump would be doing quite well there if he was able to speak French. In the more cosmopolitan cities, though, his results would be laughable...
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  #256  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
He was only a Liberal in Quebec because he is a federalist. The Quebec Liberal Party is an umbrella party, just like the Liberals in BC.

Quebec Liberals = federalist so
BC Liberals = anti-NDP
Also, as you know, back when he was our PM, Tom Mulcair was his Environment minister... Federal PC and Federal NDP leaders together under the umbrella of the only true Federalist party in Quebec, and that was very normal to everybody here.

The (closest) provincial branch of the Federal Conservatives is... the Liberal Party of Quebec.

The (closest) provincial branch of the Federal Liberals is... the Liberal Party of Quebec.

The (closest) provincial branch of the Federal NDP is... the Liberal Party of Quebec.

Now for the Bloc at least the sentence ends differently.
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  #257  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 2:10 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Also, as you know, back when he was our PM, Tom Mulcair was his Environment minister... Federal PC and Federal NDP leaders together under the umbrella of the only true Federalist party in Quebec, and that was very normal to everybody here.

The (closest) provincial branch of the Federal Conservatives is... the Liberal Party of Quebec.

The (closest) provincial branch of the Federal Liberals is... the Liberal Party of Quebec.

The (closest) provincial branch of the Federal NDP is... the Liberal Party of Quebec.

Now for the Bloc at least the sentence ends differently.
I'd argue the CAQ (and previously ADQ) is closer to the Conservatives, while the NDP is split - some factions fall with Quebec Solidaire and others with the Liberals.
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  #258  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 6:26 AM
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I don't know if it's fair to compare Quebec City to SW Ontario

QC is a centre of 800,000 while SW is far more rural/small town. London, the heart of SW Ont, despite it's conservative reputation, has always been a bastion of Liberal support both federally and provincially. The only real change to that has been the increase in NDP support in the working class eastside.

Londoners aren't even remotely as parochial as Quebec City folk and Londoners are more socially liberal. London has a reputation as being conservative but it's voting pattern for decades has proven otherwise. People mistakenly take "reserved" and conservative as one in the same which of course they aren't.

London had one of the city funded gay organizations and centre in the country, one of the first rape relief centres, respite care for the disabled, and one of the first AIDS hospices.

It deserves it's staid and reserved reputation but politically the city has been a Liberal bastion.
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  #259  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The only real change to that has been the increase in NDP support in the working class eastside.
London-Fanshawe is the "Hamilton Mountain" of London.

Quote:
London has a reputation as being conservative but it's voting pattern for decades has proven otherwise.
London mayor Diane Haskett (who refused to support Gay Pride) didn't exactly help counter London's "conservative" image. But then again my city elected Rob Ford much more recently so...
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  #260  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2015, 12:14 AM
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Yes every city has it's odd lunatic mayor or counsellor but those are anomalies.

Yes has that classic old wealth liberalism. You get this a lot in old wealth areas of districts.........reserved yet socially liberal. You don't get any right wing hillbillies in Forest Hill just as you don't go to Connecticut for a wild time but at the same time Connecticut is a Democratic bastion.

People often think reserved is the same as conservative but it is a false analogy.
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