Halifax Stadium Discussion

[someone123]

I responded to that article in the Atlantic CFL thread.

The article is very odd in that they talk about important things like population growth and corporate support then mostly ignore that when it comes to Moncton and Halifax. They also fail to show that Moncton would get more support from nearby areas or show that that support is more important than having a local population that is three times larger.

To present a compelling case I think you have to look at what the hinterlands of other CFL teams look like and where the money comes from in terms of local vs. regional market. Saying that Moncton is the "Hub City" so people will drive 5 hours each way from Edmundston to see a game does not cut it. Vaguely stating that 400,000 isn't enough for the CFL does not explain away the seemingly huge advantage of having three times the local population base.

They may or may not be correct but either way they have not produced a compelling argument.

The one clear advantage Moncton has is its stadium, but that is pretty minor because it is only a low cost facility with track that is not currently suitable for the CFL. If Halifax builds even the most modest stadium that is being considered it will be a significantly better facility.

[MonctonRad]

I don't know who this Mattyy guy is; he's not a regular Moncton forumer.

In any event, it's a circular argument that nobody can win so I won't participate (at least in the Halifax section).

Suffice it to say that most Halifax forumers don't seem to think that the 1.4 million Maritimers who live outside the boundaries of HRM really count for anything......

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't know who this Mattyy guy is; he's not a regular Moncton forumer.

In any event, it's a circular argument that nobody can win so I won't participate (at least in the Halifax section).

Suffice it to say that most Halifax forumers don't seem to think that the 1.4 million Maritimers who live outside the boundaries of HRM really count for anything......

We don't really care. This is the same argument over and over. If Moncton wants a CFL team they don't need Halifax's permission. The reality is that there are no owners lining up drooling all over Moncton. And there are no plans to spend 10's of millions of dollars on a stadium in Moncton.

With the shipbuidling contract, Halifax is set to have a very strong economy, with a population boom. If I was a potential owner I know where I would be putting my money on a CFL team.

[cormiermax]

Also, if you bring up Saskatchewan's population which is just over one million as a reason why a small city like Regina can support a team, well the Maritimes have 1.8 million people, in a much smaller area. People from all over our region would support a Halifax team. Haligonians wont support a team in Moncton.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by q12

We don't really care. This is the same argument over and over. If Moncton wants a CFL team they don't need Halifax's permission. The reality is that there are no owners lining up drooling all over Moncton. And there are no plans to spend 10's of millions of dollars on a stadium in Moncton.

With the shipbuidling contract, Halifax is set to have a very strong economy, with a population boom. If I was a potential owner I know where I would be putting my money on a CFL team.

I agree.

I hope Halifax moves forward with a reasonable stadium that supports future expansion, whether it has 10,000 seats or 20,000 seats. It would be immediately useful for stuff like SMU football and other events. If the CFL comes along later, or they set up a team in Moncton, great.

[Nashe]

I think a lot of this is just various enterprises testing the waters and seeing what kind of interest is out there. I don't think either markets are really ready for CFL now... both would be long-shots.

The fact of the matter is that for a team to land in the maritimes, it will need 1) a sponsor with deep pockets 2) the enthusiasm of the populace 3) a suitable stadium and 4) government buy-in at at least two levels.

Each of Halifax and Moncton have some of the above, but neither have all of them. We can talk all we want about whether Moncton's catchment area is superior to Halifax being flush with cash from the ship-building contract or Moncton's enthusiasm vs. Halifax raw population numbers. In the end, without those four things (and likely others I haven't thought of), nobody's getting a franchise.

[someone123]

This thread was actually focused on construction of a small scale stadium, not the CFL, before it was derailed by the Conference Board story.

It's pointless to talk about the CFL before a reasonable stadium is in place.

[MonctonRad]

Agree. There is a CFL in the Maritimes thread, that most Haligonians seem to have chosen to ignore. This would be the best place for discussions like this.

BTW, I just noticed that you've passed 10,000 posts someone, Congratulations!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

BTW, I just noticed that you've passed 10,000 posts someone, Congratulations!

Thanks. I also just hit 10 years on the forum.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

You guys seem so confident that you're an absolute shoe-in for a CFL team I figured I'd post a recent article you missed! Being the larger city isn't the only factor in considering a team - mostly which your argument is centered around. It's simply like stating you're the largest kid on the playground, therefore you get whatever you want.

Welcome to the forum, Mattyyy.
This article has been posted previously.

Although city size is not the only factor, it is a vital one. Location is also important, but only if it's within proximity to a large enough fan base.

If you combine Moncton, Saint John, and Fredericton--you still don't have Halifax's population.

Assuming our confidence for attracting a CFL team shows you haven't read many of our posts. And you need to get over your jealousy of Halifax. My hometown is Moncton, so I'm aware of the minority of Monctonians who feel adversity toward Halifax. It's petty. The cities need to be working together so we can get a CFL to represent all of us. If successful, another team for this region is possible.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

Haligonians wont support a team in Moncton.

I disagree.

This would actually be an interesting question to poll in Halifax, but my impression is that Haligonians enjoy a trip to Moncton. New Brunswick's largest city offers decent shopping, great concerts, different geographical attractions (hello Fundy!), and a unique culture that is an interesting case study for linguists (J'adore chiac!).

Moncton, in a sense, is the Montreal of the Maritimes.

[cormiermax]

I just think the CFL choosing Moncton rather than Halifax would create a lot of bad blood between the two cities. Over time that may change and Haligonians may warm to the team but I think the initial few years would be very poor in terms of Halifax support.

Anyway the notion of a Moncton team in general in nonsense, we should keep the discussion too what the threat title entails.

[craner]

Halifax needs a stadium and a CFL team.
And the CFL needs an Atlantic team.

I really hope it can happen soon!

Regarding the Moncton vs Halifax debate:
Halifax would have much better airline connections than Moncton - no ?

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by craner

Regarding the Moncton vs Halifax debate:
Halifax would have much better airline connections than Moncton - no ?

This is another factor, though I'm not sure how influential. Regardless, Moncton has a capable airport and I suspect the city would gleefully expand its connections if necessary.

I find the Moncton vs Halifax debate restraining. In order for a CFL franchise to take root here, the cities of Acadia need to get along first...

And we will. I know there are enough hardcore fans in both cities who would support a team, regardless of the city in which the team resides.

The focus, which I invite both Halifax and Moncton to take challenge upon, is to obtain a suitable home for a team. Halifax is in the planning stages for, what I pray is, a stadium within scale easily renovative to CFL standards. In the mean time, there's nothing stopping Moncton from expansion of their current stadium....

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

You guys seem so confident that you're an absolute shoe-in for a CFL team I figured I'd post a recent article you missed! Being the larger city isn't the only factor in considering a team - mostly which your argument is centered around. It's simply like stating you're the largest kid on the playground, therefore you get whatever you want.


Report puts Moncton ahead of Halifax for CFL team
CBC News
Posted: Nov 22, 2011

Playing in the Big Leagues report
But the board notes that Moncton has gained the nickname of "Hub City" because of its central location in the region.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...fl-league.html

Everybody knows that Truro is the real "Hub".

Atlantica Field

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

The Stadium seems to have hit the funding road block.... and it seems to rest entirely on the NS Provincial Government!.

HRM has said yes to 1/3 of Aprox. 60 million....(if the others are in)

I feel there has been enough on the Federal dialogue that FIFA is a fundable project being an amateur sport event. So with support from Peter McKay this end of the puzzle looks very favorable yet not totally signed, sealed nor delivered.

Again it seems the Dexter Gov't will have to change its mind on this for it go forward in funding at the Provincial level.

Dexter (not that he is the only person in Govt) has said "No" then "Not at this time".....hoping that means the next progression is "we will consider it" and then "Yes we are in for a third" !!!

Any thoughts on that?


ATLANTIC STADIUM ~ Atlantic Storm ~ Ride the Wave!

Past polls have indicated majority support for a stadium. Since the Dexter government has given a "no/maybe" type of response to support a stadium then now would be a good time for one or both of the opposition parties to be saying "yes". Have either of the opposition parties mentioned support for a stadium? If I remember correctly, while the Dexter government was waffling on the convention centre decision, the opposition parties stated their support for it.

In the past, a dollar figure ($20 million dollars) was not specified when asking Premier Dexter about a stadium. Does anyone know if Premier Dexter has specifically said "no" to $20 million for a stadium? The NDP monetary support could be spread out over 4 years so it wouldn't seem like a large amount ($5 million a year for 4 years). The HRM would have to put more money up front but would recover it over a 4 year period; usually construction contracts are paid over a period of time anyway, as construction proceeds.

In any case, if the Dexter government says "no" then the stadium issue should not die as it has in the past. A plan should be developed for a stadium and it should be pushed forward for as long as it takes. Residents have shown their support, so now more Councillors and MLAs must show their continued support and efforts (in addition to the Councillors who have already shown their support).

[someone123]

I think Dexter's earlier "no" was the qualified political "no" that doesn't actually provide any real information. I could see the province providing some sort of funding. The time frame might be too short to get things sorted out for the FIFA event though.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Would a Roughriders fan support the Stamps? Serious question here.

I'm a Nova Scotian... and a Haligonian...

I would never support a CFL franchise that wasn't based in Halifax or Nova Scotia for that matter. Why would anybody drive from Halifax to Moncton for games?

The whole discussion about "hub" is totally pointless given the concentration of population in HRM .

This myth that we all need to cooperate is hogwash... FACT: provinces compete with one another... it doesn't really matter how historically connected they are.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Would a Roughriders fan support the Stamps? Serious question here.

That's not really a fitting analogy since they both already have separate teams anyway. It's more like asking if someone in Saskatoon would be willing to trek down to Regina for Roughriders games - and evidently quite a few do.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

I beleive that Halifax would be the best choice for the CFL to expand to and not Moncton. Any franchise should be named in a way in which it is called the Atlantic or Maritime something. I would favor Atlantic.

Moncton has put on 2 great TD Atlantic events which I have attended both times. However I can't see myself driving any more than once or twice to Moncton to support a Moncton CFL franchise simply because it's too far away for me. If Halifax were ever awarded a CFL franchise I would buy season tickets. I have several friends that feel the same way.

The only real reason that Halifax is not and has not been mentioned much about being a true legitimate expansion city for the CFL is it's current lack of a suitable stadium, something I hope is rectified in the coming years.

Now back to the Halifax stadium issue. As I see it right now I really feel that there will be a stadium built. However I do not think it will be the 20,000 - 25,000 permanent seat facility that some of us are hoping for, at least not right away.

The best way for HRM council to play this is to basically say the right things, like how this stadium is going to be built for the purpose of hosting the FIFA event as well as making it a community useful stadium. This will get them both the Federal and Dexter's Provincial government on board. Hopefully each with around $20 million to go with HRM's $20 million to give a total of $60 million. There can be no mention of future CFL aspirations at this point by HRM council or both the Federal and Provincial government cannot put any $ in to this project.

Using the $60 million to build a stadium in a way that satisfies FIFA requirements but allows for future expansion of the stadium is the way to go. This might mean building a very nice permanent section which includes 10,000 to 15,000 seats, boxes, media area, concourses and washrooms on one side of the field only and simply adding temporary seats on the opposite side of the field for now to bring it up to FIFA requirements. Then later on building another permanent section on the other side of the field. For now the goal has to be to secure that additional $40 million from the 2 levels of government.

I have not posted in awhile but am always popping in to see whats being said.

Cheers