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  #21  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 12:44 AM
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elevated rail ant at grade go tegether well because they are almost the same, except elevated rail isnt in the way. subways are very out of the way, too much. instead of walking straight on the train or walking up some steps you walk down undergroung a ways. maybe its just me but i dont like going underground. id rather be real high up then below ground. everyone iis different.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 1:17 AM
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Originally Posted by badrunner View Post
There's elevated rail that looks super futuristic with reinforced concrete construction, long clear spans between support columns and nice modern rolling stock. And then there's the decrepit old hulking rustbuckets in older cities, with its million support columns and massive low slung structure creating dark and dingy city streets below.

Be glad that you don't have elevated rail in the city center. Subways are better in every way. Elevated rail is cheaper but that's about the only reason to build them.
Hey, to each their own, but there isn't anything inherently good about "futuristic" constructions, just as there isn't anything inherently bad about 'gritty' constructions. Personally, I absolutely love the L and the effect it has on the city. The 'Chicago experience' wouldn't be nearly as singular and interesting without it, and I wouldn't have things any other way.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 1:21 AM
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Tokyo has a bit of elevated rail in core areas.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 2:02 AM
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The DC metro silver line has a almost Chicago-esque feel running past the tall buildings of Tysons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hnn1OTa8fg

Edit: Go to the 7 min mark the Tysons section starts there
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  #25  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badrunner View Post
There's elevated rail that looks super futuristic with reinforced concrete construction, long clear spans between support columns and nice modern rolling stock. And then there's the decrepit old hulking rustbuckets in older cities, with its million support columns and massive low slung structure creating dark and dingy city streets below.

Be glad that you don't have elevated rail in the city center. Subways are better in every way. Elevated rail is cheaper but that's about the only reason to build them.
In Miami's case they had to elevate the Metrorail system because the entire metro sits on the Biscayne aquifer which is composed of porous limestone.
You dig a few feet down and you hit water.
It didn't turn out too bad :

Video Link


Video Link
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  #26  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 11:07 AM
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This thread made me think of Wuppertal, a town in the German Ruhr (near Düsseldorf), and its Schwebebahn, constructed circa 1900. Can you tell this region once produced a lot of steel? The electrified railway mostly follows the course of the river Wupper, since the town stretches along the river valley.







It is never at-grade, and there is no subway.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 1:41 PM
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How many cities have double-deck elevated rail? In Miami here is the Metrorail running on top of the metro-mover:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7750...7i16384!8i8192
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  #28  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
In the actual CBD with only the strictest definition:

Chicago has the famous "L"
Miami has the MetroRail system and the Metro Mover.
Jacksonville, Florida has a mostly pointless monorail that doesn't go anywhere but I guess it counts.
Honolulu's new metro will have an elevated downtown segment

Cities with trains downtown and if they are elevated downtown -

Seattle- No
Portland - Not really except going up onto bridges
SF - Nope
Oakland - Nope
San Jose - No
Sacramento - No
LA - No
Long Beach - No
San Diego - No
Phoenix - No
Salt Lake City - Nah
Denver - Nein
Minneapolis - Not really except for the very end of the Blue Line
St Louis - Uh no
Chicago - Yeah def.
Cleveland - Nope
Pittsburgh - No
Dallas - Nah
Houston - No
Atlanta - No
New Orleans - No
Charlotte - No
Norfolk - No
Buffalo - Nah bro
Miami - Yes
Jacksonville - Yes
NYC - Not under strict definition, there are els in Brooklyn and elsewhere
Philly - Not under strict definition but there are el's
Honolulu(Under Construction) - Yes
San Juan - Doesn't even go downtown
Boston - No
Baltimore - No
Washington DC - No

Can anyone think of a rail system in the US I left out?
Technically, the El is elevated under the strict definition of Center City. After leaving 2nd Street, the El negotiates a left curve and emerges near the Ben Franklin Bridge, running in the median of I-95. The strictest definition of CC is river to river, Vine to South. Though the next stop is Spring Garden, the El is running elevated before and at Vine Street.

Here's the view from Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/2n...2!4d-75.142589
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  #29  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Qubert View Post
The DC metro silver line has a almost Chicago-esque feel running past the tall buildings of Tysons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hnn1OTa8fg

Edit: Go to the 7 min mark the Tysons section starts there
I think the silver line structure in Tysons is quite overbearing. If feels like the massive hulking concrete beheamith that it is. While the view coming into Tysons from DC/Arlington is decent, it’s too bad Virginia opted to elevate the line rather than put it in a subway.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
NYC has more elevated track than people realize - approximately 40% of the system or 168 miles of track are above ground, mostly in the outer boroughs.
Exactly.

We forget that once you get out of Manhattan, there are a good number of elevated rail lines.

In addition, I believe the 1,2,3 trains become elevated uptown of 125th St
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  #31  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
In addition, I believe the 1,2,3 trains become elevated uptown of 125th St
The 1 train becomes elevated at Dyckman Street, which is on Manhattan's northern tip.

The 2 train becomes elevated at Jackson Street, in the Bronx (though goes underground and then in embankment near end).

The 3 train is all subway Uptown (but has an elevated portion in Brooklyn).
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  #32  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 3:45 PM
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^ Okay, I'm going entirely out of memory, which train is it that becomes elevated once you get to Harlem coming up from the upper west side, then. Is it the ABCD ?

Sorry, it's been a loooooong time!
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  #33  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Okay, I'm going entirely out of memory, which train is it that becomes elevated once you get to Harlem coming up from the upper west side, then. Is it the ABCD ?

Sorry, it's been a loooooong time!
That's the 1 train. It is elevated briefly in Manhattanville. Then comes above ground again in Inwood.

ETA: It's the only train line that is elevated in Manhattan.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BnaBreaker View Post
I just thought of one very interesting exception from the above list, and that is Morgantown, West Virginia. It deserves an asterisk, because technically I don't think it runs on rails, and the cars are essentially just big enough for a moderately sized family... but it's still, for all intents and purposes, in the same category as the Jacksonville people mover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan..._Rapid_Transit


Wow that's totally unexpected and cool.


Kind of reminds me of the Dorfbahn in the Austrian village of Serfaus: (which is entirely underground however)

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  #35  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 5:33 PM
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I just made this, 12 spoke train lines with a train that goes around the downtown.

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  #36  
Old Posted May 13, 2019, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
In Miami's case they had to elevate the Metrorail system because the entire metro sits on the Biscayne aquifer which is composed of porous limestone.
You dig a few feet down and you hit water.
It didn't turn out too bad :

Video Link


Video Link
If Shanghai can build the world's largest Metro system, a large percentage of which is underground, in the soft mud of the Yangtze River delta, I don't know if I buy the idea that you wouldn't be able to build underground in Miami.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 14, 2019, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That's the 1 train. It is elevated briefly in Manhattanville. Then comes above ground again in Inwood.

ETA: It's the only train line that is elevated in Manhattan.
Everyone always forgets about Metro-North, which is elevated for almost 2 miles above Park Ave...


Also Vancouver's SkyTrain is probably the best example of modern elevated rail in North America. Miami's metro is also well-designed, Harry Weese and other designers worked hard to keep the viaducts as low-slung and slender as possible so they didn't overpower the surrounding neighborhoods like Washington or Atlanta's systems.
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  #38  
Old Posted May 14, 2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Everyone always forgets about Metro-North, which is elevated for almost 2 miles above Park Ave...
Yes, I was thinking about the subway, but that's right. The Metro-North tracks are also elevated in East Harlem.

Additionally, Amtrak also has at-grade tracks along the far west side of Manhattan next to the Hudson Parkway. I think those are at-grade or in an uncovered trench for much of the way through Manhattan. I believe they are covered on the Upper West Side and then again when entering Penn Station.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 14, 2019, 2:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
True, but much of that isn't elevated.

Something like 40% of the system is non-subway, but that includes trenches (such as the N in Brooklyn and 5 in Bronx), embankments (the Q in Brooklyn, the A in furthest Queens) and elevateds. I would guess no more than 15-20% of the system sits on elevated structures. There are a lot of London-style trenches further out.
True, I wasn't thinking about trenches or embankments - 20% elevated track is probably a good estimate, 15% sounds a little low.

These are the elevated portions of the subway that come to mind:

Brooklyn:
D in Borough Park & Bensonhurst
F in Kensington, Borough Park, Bensonhurst
JM in Williamsburg, Bushwick & BedStuy
2, 3, 4 in Brownsville
Q in Brighton Beach

Queens:
7 in LIC, Sunnyside, Jackson Heights
N, W in LIC & Astoria
A in the Rockaways

Bronx:
1 in Kingsbridge & Riverdale
4 in western portions of the Bronx
2, 5 in eastern portions of the Bronx
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  #40  
Old Posted May 14, 2019, 9:10 AM
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
If Shanghai can build the world's largest Metro system, a large percentage of which is underground, in the soft mud of the Yangtze River delta, I don't know if I buy the idea that you wouldn't be able to build underground in Miami.
Oh I am sure it could have been done but at what expense?
Remember this is the US and not China whose government gives priority to things like mass transit.
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