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  #1  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 10:35 PM
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What Would Happen If if LA Banned Right-On-Red?

From LAist:

What Would Happen If if LA Banned Right-On-Red?

BY LEO DURAN IN NEWS ON MAY 30, 2019 3:07 PM

San Francisco officials are exploring an end to right-turns-on-red as a response to the growing number of accidents that happen in crosswalks.

"It's truly not always safe to a pedestrian in that place when you have right turning cars and left turning cars moving across that space," said Amanda Eaken, a San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency board member at a meeting last week.

So what if Los Angeles, where 148 pedestrians and bicyclists died on the streets in 2018, did the same?

L.A. was one of the first American cities to allow the practice of right-turns-on-red in 1925 as a way to alleviate traffic congestion. The practice became legal nationally in the 1970s because there was an energy crisis at the time, and it was thought that Americans would burn less gas if they didn't idle while waiting to turn right.

But that convenience came with a trade-off.

"We allow right turns on red because we assume the best in people. We assume that drivers will obey the traffic laws," says Madeline Brozen, deputy director of the Lewis Center for Regional Policy Studies at UCLA. "But the driver that wants to make the right turn — they're looking left. They're looking for that gap in traffic to go. They don't [always] look for pedestrians coming the other way."

Studies that compare the data from traffic intersections that do allow rights-on-red to those that don't are hard to come by. But Brozen notes that NYC was able to reduce pedestrian- and bike-related crashes by 41 percent after the city restricted left turns.

Currently NYC is the only major city where rights-on-red are completely illegal and DC plans to ban them at more than 100 intersections by the end of this year.

But Brozen says it would be a tough sell if Los Angeles officials ever wanted to follow suit. Drivers, for one, might rail against it.

[...]

Link: https://laist.com/2019/05/30/what_wo...ght-on-red.php
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  #2  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 11:39 PM
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  #3  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 11:44 PM
JAYNYC JAYNYC is offline
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The real question should be, "What would happen if LA banned the unwritten rule that allows three cars to blatantly run the light by making an unprotected left hand turn as soon as it turns red"?
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 12:22 AM
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Does LA really have the pedestrian density (high amount of folks walking sidewalks) to warrant such a rule (right-on-red) ban? City-wide? If anything, just keep it at certain high risk or high incident intersections, but IDK about the whole city.

NYC has it city wide, but in some sections, like the low-rise or single-family home sections of Queens, it would be nice to turn on red. I mean, people still do it, but for the sake of being kosher... your not suppose to do it. "hint hint".

In Manhattan it absolutely makes sense. Although pedestrians crossing when they are not suppose to does create traffic, especially around the PA Bus Terminal.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 1:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Does LA really have the pedestrian density (high amount of folks walking sidewalks) to warrant such a rule (right-on-red) ban? City-wide? If anything, just keep it at certain high risk or high incident intersections, but IDK about the whole city.

NYC has it city wide, but in some sections, like the low-rise or single-family home sections of Queens, it would be nice to turn on red. I mean, people still do it, but for the sake of being kosher... your not suppose to do it. "hint hint".

In Manhattan it absolutely makes sense. Although pedestrians crossing when they are not suppose to does create traffic, especially around the PA Bus Terminal.
Most cities should probably do it. The crosswalk is the most dangerous place to be a pedestrian. It's a life or death issue for someone walking or biking, but just an inconvenience for someone behind the wheel of a car.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 2:15 AM
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I always walk in front of people who pull into the crosswalk waiting to turn right on red.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 4:28 AM
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Bay Area drivers don't honor laws or common driving courtesy anyway so I doubt anything would really change.
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  #8  
Old Posted May 31, 2019, 4:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Does LA really have the pedestrian density (high amount of folks walking sidewalks) to warrant such a rule (right-on-red) ban? City-wide? If anything, just keep it at certain high risk or high incident intersections, but IDK about the whole city.
That would be confusing for drivers to keep track and remember; not knowing which intersections are legal to take a turn on. Every time I've been to LA, there's always throngs of tourists walking around looking lost and on their phones.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 4:50 AM
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I think this is a huge mistake for the very reason they want to do it (and some others). If you can only turn on a green light, that’s when hordes of people are crossing the street you want to turn onto and you will have to cross through the stream of them. If you politely (and legally) wait until the crosswalk is clear, you won’t be able to turn at all because in downtown SF somebody is likely crossing the entire time the light is green (even if the little crossing man isn’t white but red).

On the other hand, turning on red when nobody should be crossing in front of you should actually be safer. Anybody you might hit would be crossing the street illegally. Of course, in SF that happens. People do all sorts of illegal things and there is virtually no traffic enforcement so nobody except the bumper of a turning car stops them. Today I was very nearly bowled over on the sidewalk as a guybon a bike came careening down that sidewalk at about 20 mph. Happens all the time. But bike riders aren’t using fossil fuels so are acknowledged by the SF Board of Supervisors as morally superior people and can do whatever they want.

PS: Through the conversion of traffic lanes to bike lanes, taking them away from thousands of cars and handing them to a few hundred bike riders, the SF BOS has nearly brought downtown traffic to a gridlocked halt. This should complete the job—nobody will be able to turn at all. Eventually everyone will be forced to drive into the Bay, the Pacific Ocean or, worst of all, San Mateo County.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 5:12 AM
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Bike only lanes in NY are always blocked by UPS/Fed Ex trucks, your occasional Taxi/Uber, cars going in them and pedestrians think its another form of a sidewalk. If you ride a bike in NY, be prepared to be on guard.

IDK how SF is, but I bet the bike lanes are blocked too!

I can tell ya that a lot of New Yorker drivers hate bicyclists.
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  #11  
Old Posted May 31, 2019, 5:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
That would be confusing for drivers to keep track and remember; not knowing which intersections are legal to take a turn on. Every time I've been to LA, there's always throngs of tourists walking around looking lost and on their phones.
What if they use the occasional "no turn on red" sign?

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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 5:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
That would be confusing for drivers to keep track and remember; not knowing which intersections are legal to take a turn on. Every time I've been to LA, there's always throngs of tourists walking around looking lost and on their phones.
How would it be hard? Just have a sign that says "No turn on red." Or, have a traffic light that has a red circle and a red right arrow, and have a sign that says "No turn on red [arrow]". We have them in Delaware for certain intersections.
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  #13  
Old Posted May 31, 2019, 5:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Bike only lanes in NY are always blocked by UPS/Fed Ex trucks, your occasional Taxi/Uber, cars going in them and pedestrians think its another form of a sidewalk. If you ride a bike in NY, be prepared to be on guard.

IDK how SF is, but I bet the bike lanes are blocked too!

I can tell ya that a lot of New Yorker drivers hate bicyclists.
Totally blocked—and I live on a 3-lane one-way street that typically has 2 lanes blocked by double-parked cars and trucks. It’s an obstacle course.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 5:45 AM
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
How would it be hard? Just have a sign that says "No turn on red." Or, have a traffic light that has a red circle and a red right arrow, and have a sign that says "No turn on red [arrow]". We have them in Delaware for certain intersections.
I've seen the signs too but people who've been driving those intersections for years are not going to notice a new sign. Lights might work...
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 1:24 PM
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The reasoning for this, as stated in the article is because L.A. a city of 4 million people and an MSA of 13 million people had 148 pedestrians and bicyclists killed.

How is the pedestrian death count broken down?

What percentage were actually killed from a 'Right on Red' motorist? Probably a very low percentage. Many pedestrians are killed by a speeding car and the pedestrian crossing at mid-block.

How many of those motorists are under the influence of drugs, alcohol or medication?

How many of those pedestrians were breaking laws? Jaywalking, walking along restricted access roadways?

How many pedestrians that are struck are victims of a hit and run?

How many bicyclists were violating their own laws? Riding on the sidewalk, running red lights, not stopping at stop signs etc.
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  #16  
Old Posted May 31, 2019, 1:25 PM
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Not sure why this needs to be a thread.

Lots of cities already have “no turn on red” policies. They’ve had it in Chicago for as long as I remember
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 1:32 PM
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Montreal also bans right turns on red.

Since like Manhattan it's an island you can only enter via X number of bridges and tunnels, it's easy to post large signs like this at every single spot drivers could arrive from:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4215...7i16384!8i8192
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 1:56 PM
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I got pulled over in Brooklyn 5 years ago for turning right on red. Didn't know that it was illegal anywhere to turn right on red unless posted on the light. Luckily they let me go as my plates were still from Texas then.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 2:13 PM
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I got pulled over in Brooklyn 5 years ago for turning right on red. Didn't know that it was illegal anywhere to turn right on red unless posted on the light. Luckily they let me go as my plates were still from Texas then.
Its illegal everywhere within the five boroughs, not just Manhattan, unless it specifically says you can do it. It makes sense, since there is enough pedestrian density almost everywhere. I've seen cars with NJ plates turn right on red in Times Square... maniacs. At that point you'd be lucky if the cops get to you first. This is one way to get dragged out of your car and get seriously maimed or beaten to death.
Other cities should just use it selectively in the more crowded/tourist areas.
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Old Posted May 31, 2019, 3:52 PM
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No turn on red laws also reduce traffic accidents.
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