HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 3:22 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 20,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Using Emporis standards, Toronto has probably been a top 3 NA city for highrises since the 1970's.
sure, for "highrises", but many people (myself included) aren't as impressed by a sea of thousands of 23 story commie-blocks spread out over hundreds of sq. miles as they are by a bonafide skyline of truly tall buildings.

it's only recently that toronto has been making a lot of noise in the taller height categories, and what a ruckus it has been!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Most Toronto highrises are outside the core, while almost all Chicago highrises are within the core. So it isn't accurate to conclude that (if you standard for best skyline is strictly based on "N of 500 ft+ towers") Toronto will have the #2 skyline.
well, the vast majority of toronto's 500+ footers are in the core, so if the pace continues, toronto is gonna pass chicago on "500+ footers in the core" as well at some point in the not too distant future.

and if you think the 500' threshold is too low, then jump it up to 700'. chicago has 26 700+ footers (all in the core), toronto has 23 700+ footers(all in the core), so again, the gap is getting extremely narrow, and even though chicago is holding strong with its own building boom, toronto is surging.

but yes, chicago still holds a bigger lead in the upper reaches of the height spectrum for now.

chicago and toronto are settling into the tier behind NYC at #2/#3, split those hairs as you will.

the exact ordering isn't nearly as interesting as the fact that toronto is even in the discussion.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
But Toronto has a growth boundary and strict limits on SFH. So when the region grows, it leads to highrise, or at least multifamily, growth. Most NA cities have no such restrictions, so the relationship between growth and highrises is weak at best.
my point was that toronto could be having a large skyscraper building boom even without the high population growth, international immigration, chinese money, what have you, just as chicago is currently doing. those things aren't prerequisites.
__________________
He has to go.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Jun 17, 2019 at 4:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 3:44 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 20,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
C'mon Steely, you know you can't start a Toronto thread here and not expect the usual suspects making the usual talking points ("b-b-but Chinese money laundering!").
it's not so much that the knee-jerk toronto discrediting was totally unexpected; i was just hoping for some more responses along the lines of "holy shit, that's quite a remarkable feat for a NA city over the past 2 decades!"

but yeah, we get the usual stupidity instead.......

i guess its reassuring to know that some things never change.
__________________
He has to go.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:18 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,756
Because we've had the same troll users for 15+ years now...

Toronto remains a juggernaut. I feel like the city still needs a signature tower though, one with a memorable and iconic design made with great materials.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:20 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 16,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
y and strict limits on SFH. So when the region grows, it leads to highrise, or at least multifamily, growth. Most NA cities have no such restrictions, so the relationship between growth and highrises is weak at best.
^ This.

I'm not going to sit there and try to downplay what's happening in Toronto, but I will have to say that we need to keep one perspective:

American and Canadian cities are definitely playing by different rules. Hell, American cities are probably playing by different rules than any other country in the developed world.

Even today, allocation of resources, zoning, planning, transportation, land-use policies, etc etc in the US is SO CAR-CENTRIC and so in favor of building SFH style subdivisions in the periphery that highrise construction in transit-served sites in America is a bigger accomplishment than it is in Canada.

So 50 highrises in the core of an American cities might as well be equivalent to 200 highrises in Canada, and perhaps 400 highrises in an Asian city...
__________________
I drink, therefore I am
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:22 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Because we've had the same troll users for 15+ years now...

Toronto remains a juggernaut. I feel like the city still needs a signature tower though, one with a memorable and iconic design made with great materials.
Yeah it would be so amazing to have a signature tower with a memorable and iconic design. If only there was a major Canadian company like say CN, that would consider building such a thing.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:32 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
According to SSP''s database, metro Toronto now has 100 buildings over 500' tall, including U/C towers.

There are only two other cities in the US/Canada that have reached that same mark: New York (300) and Chicago (123).

What makes Toronto's crossing of this threshold even more impressive is the fact that as recently as 2004, Toronto only had 11 500+ footers. That's an increase of 89 such towers in only 15 years!

Hot. Damn.
Hot damn is right. I have a friend that is an iron worker in Toronto and it sounds like things have been going very well for him. He just bought himself a big house in the boonies and a new Mercedes. My only gripe with his work is that much of it has been in Mississauga where a lot of the projects end up being towers in a park. They’re not very walkable. I don’t know how tall they are offhand, but it almost feels like they’re building tall for the sake of building tall. The projects in Toronto are better integrated, but most were pretty meh from a design perspective. This is the story everywhere these days, but there are a lot of blank walls and vacant retail spaces. Really kills the streetscape.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:34 PM
badrunner badrunner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 454
Anyone else getting these real estate investment ads on this thread?



Maybe the almighty algorithms know the secret to Toronto's growth
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:37 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I agree.The GSW's were definitely not healthy.That's sports..Klay Thompson is a 3 point shooting machine, so it sucked for them seeing him go down again after coming back.
We can include an asterix beside 75% (or more) of championship wins if we looked hard enough.

I'm really hoping somebody posts some pics of the Raptors parade tomorrow, and also throw in "a typical Friday night" in Toronto like some others have done on here for other cities while disputing claims that their heart of their downtowns are more vibrant then what posters claim they were.
yep and a great season for us popcorn eating cavs fans with kyrie and lebron out of it and gsw facing the same injury bugs that cavs had when kyrie and kevin love were down and out during the finals. healthy those cavs would have annihilated them! and now another laugh with lebron getting monobrow -- too bad the nba games aren't two on two - ha.

so i salute this raptors parade --- wish i could go bump up the numbers -- bring on the typical night pics --- and more anonymous 500'ers for that matter --- sao paulo is the goal!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 4:55 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
so i salute this raptors parade --- wish i could go bump up the numbers -- bring on the typical night pics --- and more anonymous 500'ers for that matter --- sao paulo is the goal!

Just a regular Monday here in Toronto...





Estimated 2 million people out on the street right now.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 5:15 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Yeah it would be so amazing to have a signature tower with a memorable and iconic design. If only there was a major Canadian company like say CN, that would consider building such a thing.
Obviously when I say tower I mean skyscraper.

And lets be honest here the CN tower is no beauty made with nice materials, it's an ugly concrete mast.

Toronto needs something like the John Hancock Center.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 5:56 PM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston/Galveston
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
According to SSP''s database, metro Toronto now has 100 buildings over 500' tall, including U/C towers.

There are only two other cities in the US/Canada that have reached that same mark: New York (300) and Chicago (123).

What makes Toronto's crossing of this threshold even more impressive is the fact that as recently as 2004, Toronto only had 11 500+ footers. That's an increase of 89 such towers in only 15 years!

Hot. Damn.


But Jacksonville's skyline is somehow still better.
If Toronto keeps growing, I'll have no choice but to rescind that. But shockingly, I still go with Jacksonville.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 5:57 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Just a regular Monday here in Toronto...





Estimated 2 million people out on the street right now.

yass! yaaasss! how does it feeeel gsw?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 5:58 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 20,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
But shockingly, I still go with Jacksonville.
of course you do.

find one other person on this globe who agrees with you and maybe the rest of us will stop laughing at you.

but probably not.
__________________
He has to go.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 6:05 PM
Doady's Avatar
Doady Doady is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,485
My impression of Chicago is the towers were built with higher quality material and more distinctive design. Maybe building at a faster pace means less care, and newer buildings in general look cheap compared to old buildings anyways. Of course, since Chicago built over a longer period of time, there will be more variety compared to Toronto. Toronto was built in shorter time so the buildings look more the same. When I look at Mississauga for example, lack of buildings from many different periods is the main difference compared to Toronto. Same is true when comparing Toronto to Chicago.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 6:16 PM
Nite's Avatar
Nite Nite is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ This.

I'm not going to sit there and try to downplay what's happening in Toronto, but I will have to say that we need to keep one perspective:

American and Canadian cities are definitely playing by different rules. Hell, American cities are probably playing by different rules than any other country in the developed world.

Even today, allocation of resources, zoning, planning, transportation, land-use policies, etc etc in the US is SO CAR-CENTRIC and so in favor of building SFH style subdivisions in the periphery that highrise construction in transit-served sites in America is a bigger accomplishment than it is in Canada.

So 50 highrises in the core of an American cities might as well be equivalent to 200 highrises in Canada, and perhaps 400 highrises in an Asian city...
Now you know how we feel and metropolitan population number
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 6:24 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,834
I would like to see Toronto have more signature towers. When looking at the skyline from the lake, there isn't any that really stand out except for the CN Tower since they're all clustered together at similar heights. A few 1,500 foot strategically placed towers, of good design and quality, would be awesome for the skyline.

It's not all about the skyline however. I really like the planning initiatives coming out of Toronto. I was reading that regulations are coming out to legalize single-family homes having a second unit. That will do wonders for creating a vibrant urban environment.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 6:26 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
If Toronto keeps growing, I'll have no choice but to rescind that. But shockingly, I still go with Jacksonville.
That's gotta be a joke/trolling. Jacksonville has the worst downtown in the Americas. It's not growing except in the suburbs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 6:29 PM
Sun Belt's Avatar
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
The Good Times
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The Envy of the World
Posts: 3,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Hot damn is right. I have a friend that is an iron worker in Toronto and it sounds like things have been going very well for him. He just bought himself a big house in the boonies and a new Mercedes. My only gripe with his work is that much of it has been in Mississauga where a lot of the projects end up being towers in a park. They’re not very walkable. I don’t know how tall they are offhand, but it almost feels like they’re building tall for the sake of building tall. The projects in Toronto are better integrated, but most were pretty meh from a design perspective. This is the story everywhere these days, but there are a lot of blank walls and vacant retail spaces. Really kills the streetscape.
He's supposed to buy a cramped apartment in a high rise! What the !
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 6:37 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
That's gotta be a joke/trolling. Jacksonville has the worst downtown in the Americas. It's not growing except in the suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Hot damn is right. I have a friend that is an iron worker in Toronto and it sounds like things have been going very well for him. He just bought himself a big house in the boonies and a new Mercedes. My only gripe with his work is that much of it has been in Mississauga where a lot of the projects end up being towers in a park. They’re not very walkable. I don’t know how tall they are offhand, but it almost feels like they’re building tall for the sake of building tall. The projects in Toronto are better integrated, but most were pretty meh from a design perspective. This is the story everywhere these days, but there are a lot of blank walls and vacant retail spaces. Really kills the streetscape.
Developers are only following zoning. Remove requirements for shitty green space and maximum building coverage, more urban and walkable buildings will be built. It's the zoning that is encouraging auto-oriented developments.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2019, 7:15 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 18,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
It's the zoning that is encouraging auto-oriented developments.
No, it's auto usage that encourages auto-oriented developments.

The zoning doesn't dictate consumer preferences, and somewhere like Mississauga isn't gonna be built in a pre-auto format, obviously.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:35 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.