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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2014, 1:39 AM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
You wrote yesterday at 8pm " Also, you basically said you don't support tons of local businesses and made sweeping characterizations. "

Where are there 'tons of businesses ' in downtown Dartmouth ?
How many is 'tons' ?
The shoe shop, Hiltz', closed over 25 years ago - can't buy shoes downtown now
The photo supply store closed a decade ago - can't buy photo supplies downtown now
I bought LPs at Nieforth about 40 years ago - can't buy music downtown now
The small grocery store on Alderney Drive closed over 20 years ago - can't buy groceries downtown now
Fishers closed - I was a regular customer for many years when buying packaging to ship small parcels around the world and then Canada Post drove the costs through the roof and Mrs Fisher and Canada Post lost me and several other customers. The nearest replacement is Basin in Halifax.
Can't buy mens clothes downtown.
And here is some good news, it is 20 years since the community came together to stop renewal of the entertainment licence at the drug haven known as Portland Landing.
There are no 'sweeping characterizations', but there are accurate descriptions. And since when have statistics culled from audited HRM financial statements, HRM planning documents and CMHC been classed as 'negativity' ?
Do you dislike facts or just choose to ignore them ?
I totally agree, Spring Garden is much better than downtown Dartmouth, but there is so much missing. I try to support local but it is difficult. I frequently end up at Micmac, Dartmouth Crossing, Bayers Lake or more frequently shopping on line. Too often I am directed by merchants to go on line and guess what after finding stuff on line I won't be back to the brick and mortar store.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2014, 2:26 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by mcmcclassic View Post
It's this kind of attitude that keeps Halifax, and Nova Scotia in the dark ages...

We can beat statistics to death, but as others have pointed out there are actual good businesses in Downtown Dartmouth. Sure there is no grocery store right downtown, but Bremar Dr. Superstore is a 5min drive. Same with the Wyse Rd. Sobeys. Everything else that I can't buy downtown I go to Dartmouth Crossing and Micmac mall (like Haligonians go to Bayer's Lake and Halifax Shopping Center)

I am too young to remember the old downtown Dartmouth, but what I am experiencing now isn't the worst thing ever. I love getting a beer at Celtic, going for coffee at Two if by Sea, and going to the Alderney farmers market on Saturday. If we continue to look at what we can't do, we will never succeed as a region.

As stated many times before, areas don't re-gentrify overnight. It takes time. I can guarantee DT Dartmouth in 10 years will be a lot different (for the good).

*end rant*
I don't know about 're-gentrify', but I do know that the demographics of downtown are a cause for worry. We have a friend in Admiralty Place who describes the property as deathly quiet and full of retirees, many of whom spend 3-4 months in the sunny south. As I posted previously the 30+ group are buying single detached properties and thus the area is going through a generational change.
My block now has 1 child on it whereas 20 years ago there were 10 children. Retirees are not big spenders in the local economy but families are. Providing more housing for families will be better for downtown business expansion than condos for singles and retirees. The schools, parks,transit and recreational facilities are here but development aimed at families is non existent. We cannot improve the area without understanding the past and realising what the statistics are telling us.
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2014, 3:18 AM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
I don't know about 're-gentrify', but I do know that the demographics of downtown are a cause for worry. We have a friend in Admiralty Place who describes the property as deathly quiet and full of retirees, many of whom spend 3-4 months in the sunny south. As I posted previously the 30+ group are buying single detached properties and thus the area is going through a generational change.
I have zero concern for the demographics of downtown Dartmouth. The area is becoming known as a the place to get a decent, centrally located house at a price point lower than in Halifax. Every business I can think of that's opened in the past few years caters to a younger demographic. Drop into Two If By Sea on a Saturday morning, or the Alderney Market, and they're crammed with young people and children. I guarantee that the area will become more youthful in the next decade, not less.

I don't know about Admiralty Place--maybe it's a retiree magnet. But as you say, the 30+ crowd (including young parents) are moving into houses, largely. Maybe the condos are for the downsizing baby boomers. I'm in my early 30s, and I rent, but I know if I were looking for a condo, I would definitely stick to the peninsula. However, if I were in the market for a house (expecting kids, etc) I'd expand to Dartmouth, for the price advantage if nothing else.

I'm concerned about the demographics of the province overall, but as far as central neighbourhoods like downtown Dartmouth are concerned, all signs point to youth.
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2014, 2:48 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
I don't know about 're-gentrify', but I do know that the demographics of downtown are a cause for worry. We have a friend in Admiralty Place who describes the property as deathly quiet and full of retirees, many of whom spend 3-4 months in the sunny south. As I posted previously the 30+ group are buying single detached properties and thus the area is going through a generational change.
My block now has 1 child on it whereas 20 years ago there were 10 children. Retirees are not big spenders in the local economy but families are. Providing more housing for families will be better for downtown business expansion than condos for singles and retirees. The schools, parks,transit and recreational facilities are here but development aimed at families is non existent. We cannot improve the area without understanding the past and realising what the statistics are telling us.
So then how do you propose to force families into downtown? You can build the units - the big question is whether they BUY or RENT them. This is a big issue we're having in some of our growth corridors in Calgary. We get developers building 2 and 3 bedroom units; but families aren't the ones buying them. So all the work we put into getting these 'family oriented units' isn't making a hill of beans difference.

Dartmouth downtown (compared to Spring Garden Road) is in rough shape. But we can't focus on what it is - it's time to look at what it can be/will be. With King's Wharf growing, the height limits removed and a lot of interest occurring (I spoke with some planner folk while I was home - there have been pre-applications) what we see today will not be what we see in 15 years time.

Rome was not built in a day...
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2014, 1:48 AM
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KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
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*Posts deleted*

Stick to the topic, guys, and don't ruin the thread with petty bickering.
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 4:06 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmcclassic View Post
I am too young to remember the old downtown Dartmouth, but what I am experiencing now isn't the worst thing ever. I love getting a beer at Celtic, going for coffee at Two if by Sea, and going to the Alderney farmers market on Saturday. If we continue to look at what we can't do, we will never succeed as a region.

As stated many times before, areas don't re-gentrify overnight. It takes time. I can guarantee DT Dartmouth in 10 years will be a lot different (for the good).

*end rant*
For a little perspective, here's what The Avery site looked like in the 1959-60 era. My memories don't go much further back than the late sixties, but I can remember a downtown that was a little worn down, but still a vibrant neighborhood with lots of residential, some light industrial, a bus terminal on the site of Queen Square (in fact my Grandparents lived in a house located where the parking garage for Queen Square now exists), a local shopping area on lower Portland St, the ferry terminal, etc. You could get everything you needed in the local area, and commute to wherever you needed to go by the bus or ferry - in fact, my granparents never owned a car, my grandfather used the ferry to commute to his job at the Moirs factory (where the current Trade Centre is now located) every day. There was also a train station down there but I'm way too young to remember passenger travel from that site.

All that started to go downhill in the seventies as I remember the Belmont Hotel on the corner of Ochterloney and Alderney (previously named Commercial St) was known as a rundown, seedy place, and in general the area was becoming somewhat neglected. The lot that contains Alderney Gate/Landing was occupied by some rundown old buildings at the time as well - I forget what businesses they contained, but I remember one was a tavern. When Mic Mac Mall was built around 1970, the shopping area of Portland Street slowly started to shut down until it became somewhat of a shadow of its former self.

Anyways, my point is that with projects like the Avery combined with families seeking out the older dwellings, this is concrete evidence that this area is turning around. I am happy to be able to witness this trend occurring.



Source: http://www.novascotia.ca/nsarm/virtu...es.asp?ID=1405
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 4:44 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Another view of this area from the early sixties, with The Avery site at the arrow.

Note all of the signs for businesses along Commercial Street.



Source: http://www.novascotia.ca/nsarm/virtu...es.asp?ID=2263
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 6:02 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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It will be interesting to see how Dartmouth downtown will turn out in say 20 years time when the building heights are amended with the Regional Centre plan. I'm looking forward to it because the trend (as I see it) in Dartmouth is pushing forward with taller, mixed use.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 6:33 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
It will be interesting to see how Dartmouth downtown will turn out in say 20 years time when the building heights are amended with the Regional Centre plan. I'm looking forward to it because the trend (as I see it) in Dartmouth is pushing forward with taller, mixed use.
I too am looking forward to this. I think there is enough vacant or poorly used land there to be able to build up and create density but still maintain the flavour of DT Dartmouth, which I feel is still quite distinct from DT Halifax, and rightly so.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 7:25 PM
JET JET is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
For a little perspective, here's what The Avery site looked like in the 1959-60 era. My memories don't go much further back than the late sixties, but I can remember a downtown that was a little worn down, but still a vibrant neighborhood with lots of residential, some light industrial, a bus terminal on the site of Queen Square (in fact my Grandparents lived in a house located where the parking garage for Queen Square now exists), a local shopping area on lower Portland St, the ferry terminal, etc. You could get everything you needed in the local area, and commute to wherever you needed to go by the bus or ferry - in fact, my granparents never owned a car, my grandfather used the ferry to commute to his job at the Moirs factory (where the current Trade Centre is now located) every day. There was also a train station down there but I'm way too young to remember passenger travel from that site.

All that started to go downhill in the seventies as I remember the Belmont Hotel on the corner of Ochterloney and Alderney (previously named Commercial St) was known as a rundown, seedy place, and in general the area was becoming somewhat neglected. The lot that contains Alderney Gate/Landing was occupied by some rundown old buildings at the time as well - I forget what businesses they contained, but I remember one was a tavern. When Mic Mac Mall was built around 1970, the shopping area of Portland Street slowly started to shut down until it became somewhat of a shadow of its former self.

Anyways, my point is that with projects like the Avery combined with families seeking out the older dwellings, this is concrete evidence that this area is turning around. I am happy to be able to witness this trend occurring.



Source: http://www.novascotia.ca/nsarm/virtu...es.asp?ID=1405
was Little Nashville at the site of the Alderney landing, or beside it on the other side of Ochterloney?
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 7:27 PM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
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Originally Posted by JET View Post
was Little Nashville at the site of the Alderney landing, or beside it on the other side of Ochterloney?
Little Nashville was up on 169 Wyse Rd
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 7:41 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by JET View Post
was Little Nashville at the site of the Alderney landing, or beside it on the other side of Ochterloney?
Now that you mention it, I seem to recall that Little Nashville was at that location before it moved to its last location at Wyse Rd. (in a building that previously housed The Matador and later The Crazy Horse cabarets).

Yes, I think you're right on that...
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2014, 1:30 AM
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hoser111 hoser111 is online now
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Now that you mention it, I seem to recall that Little Nashville was at that location before it moved to its last location at Wyse Rd. (in a building that previously housed The Matador and later The Crazy Horse cabarets).

Yes, I think you're right on that...
Indeed. I worked in Queen's Square at the time and remember watching them knock down Little Nashville and build Alderney Gate.
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  #74  
Old Posted May 13, 2014, 1:27 AM
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Excavation progress as of the weekend:

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  #75  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 11:18 PM
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Jonovision Jonovision is offline
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Crane base went in today and more pieces are on site.

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  #76  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 2:37 AM
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Mobile crane is on site and looks to be set to put the tower crane up Saturday.
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  #77  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 4:08 PM
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No activity today:

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  #78  
Old Posted May 27, 2014, 8:33 PM
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Crane finally went up today. Really excited for this one. The more I look at the design the happier I am with it. It looks like it has a good urban quality about it.
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  #79  
Old Posted May 27, 2014, 8:41 PM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
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I would really love to see more of these along Queens street
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  #80  
Old Posted May 28, 2014, 1:10 AM
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Photo from tonight, crane looks like a rental, I haven't seen it around here before:

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