The Manitoba Provincial Politics Discussion

[blueandgoldguy]

Reducing the deficit is fine but what is the government's vision for creating jobs in this province and turning Manitoba from a have-not province into a have province ....or at least less of a have-not province. For the record, the last Conservative Premier of Manitoba was quoted as saying Manitoba would always be a have-not province and rely on equalization payments. His government was great with the finances, not so much with the vision.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Reducing the deficit is fine but what is the government's vision for creating jobs in this province and turning Manitoba from a have-not province into a have province ....or at least less of a have-not province. For the record, the last Conservative Premier of Manitoba was quoted as saying Manitoba would always be a have-not province and rely on equalization payments. His government was great with the finances, not so much with the vision.

Excellent points. Pallister has occasionally mentioned how great it would be to have a Hydro "pipeline", as a clean alternative to oil/gas pipeline construction. This is a great "vision" but where is his leadership on this? It doesn't help that he seems to pick fights with every other level of government he has to deal with.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Reducing the deficit is fine but what is the government's vision for creating jobs in this province and turning Manitoba from a have-not province into a have province ....or at least less of a have-not province. For the record, the last Conservative Premier of Manitoba was quoted as saying Manitoba would always be a have-not province and rely on equalization payments. His government was great with the finances, not so much with the vision.

Pallister is slowly trying to turn Manitoba into a business friendly province after 17 years of the failed socialist policies of the speNDP regime.

And after 17 years of the speNDP regime what new industry did the speNDP regime attract, what were their accomplishments in terms of job growth aside from growing the size of govt.?

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Pallister is slowly trying to turn Manitoba into a business friendly province after 17 years of the failed socialist policies of the speNDP regime.

And after 17 years of the speNDP regime what new industry did the speNDP regime attract, what were their accomplishments in terms of job growth aside from growing the size of govt.?

I'm not by any means defending the speNDP government as they just threw money at any problem, but I have yet to see how Pallister has accomplished much of anything during his term. Yes, spending is down, but at what cost? The latest stats show a 20-year high exodus of people leaving this province for other provinces. I don't see any type of vision there. Immigration is the only thing that is contributing to growth in any way.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I'm not by any means defending the speNDP government as they just threw money at any problem, but I have yet to see how Pallister has accomplished much of anything during his term. Yes, spending is down, but at what cost? The latest stats show a 20-year high exodus of people leaving this province for other provinces. I don't see any type of vision there. Immigration is the only thing that is contributing to growth in any way.

Good point. The current government likes to make a big show of its indifference to Winnipeg, but Winnipeg is still the main growth driver here. It's not like people and dollars are flocking to the Binscarths and Flin Flons.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Jammon

The latest stats show a 20-year high exodus of people leaving this province for other provinces. I don't see any type of vision there. Immigration is the only thing that is contributing to growth in any way.

If you are referring to Statistics Canada's 2017/2018 net inter provincial migration number for Manitoba of -9,200 people from Table 17-10-0008-01, I'd strongly caution the use of this statistic as evidence that Manitoba has a "20-year high exodus of people leaving". Stats Can publishes this number as a preliminary value and it even has a footnote cautioning that. It will likely be revised in the near future, but using it for now could be misleading. Those values are only accurate up to 2016/17.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I'm not by any means defending the speNDP government as they just threw money at any problem, but I have yet to see how Pallister has accomplished much of anything during his term. Yes, spending is down, but at what cost? The latest stats show a 20-year high exodus of people leaving this province for other provinces. I don't see any type of vision there. Immigration is the only thing that is contributing to growth in any way.

Can't argue against anything in your post.

With 17 years of the speNDP regime and now a couple years of Pal and the Cons not much has changed in terms of job growth and it won't until new industry locates here.

About the only industry booming in this province is in social services!

[Tacheguy]

I have to laugh when people equate low taxes and business friendly. Ask people in Kansas how their little low tax obsession worked out.
Modern business needs highly effective public services (education, training, infrastructure)more than low taxes. Advanced technology industries are exploding in many of the world’s most high-cost locations, because the urban environments are safe and attractive and because educated people want to live there. This is what drives knowledge-based industry investment today. This is what our dinosaurs don’t understand.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I have to laugh when people equate low taxes and business friendly. Ask people in Kansas how their little low tax obsession worked out.
Modern business needs highly effective public services (education, training, infrastructure)more than low taxes. Advanced technology industries are exploding in many of the world’s most high-cost locations, because the urban environments are safe and attractive and because educated people want to live there. This is what drives knowledge-based industry investment today. This is what our dinosaurs don’t understand.

Or ask people in low tax states like Washington, Texas, South Dakota and Nevada how things are working out!

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

If you are referring to Statistics Canada's 2017/2018 net inter provincial migration number for Manitoba of -9,200 people from Table 17-10-0008-01, I'd strongly caution the use of this statistic as evidence that Manitoba has a "20-year high exodus of people leaving". Stats Can publishes this number as a preliminary value and it even has a footnote cautioning that. It will likely be revised in the near future, but using it for now could be misleading. Those values are only accurate up to 2016/17.

I'm seeing the numbers in my job as well. I deal a lot with immigration and inter-provincial migration in my health care sector and I'm seeing the outflux as well as my counterparts in other health care professions across the province.

It's not unusual given the transformation of the system occurring right now- I just don't think the implementation was well thought out at all and we're seeing health care providers fed up and leaving the province. Which should be concerning.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Or ask people in low tax states like Washington, Texas, South Dakota and Nevada how things are working out!

Washington has a combined sales tax of 9% and raises lots of revenue. Household income in Texas is below the national average (to go along with its ravaged public education system); South Dakota is perhaps the most publically endebted state in the union (keeping up with Kansas?). You have to dig deeper on those Fraser institute articles that inflame you so much..

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I have to laugh when people equate low taxes and business friendly. Ask people in Kansas how their little low tax obsession worked out.
Modern business needs highly effective public services (education, training, infrastructure)more than low taxes. Advanced technology industries are exploding in many of the world’s most high-cost locations, because the urban environments are safe and attractive and because educated people want to live there. This is what drives knowledge-based industry investment today. This is what our dinosaurs don’t understand.

Haha yeah I can just imagine all of the buzz in corporate boardrooms across the continent about how we lowered PST by one percent and now Manitoba is a lucrative gold mine they can't wait to move into!! Good companies with good jobs want an educated workforce and a livable city, both of which are created through public sector investment. The only companies who will be wooed by a small tax reduction are those industries who survive by minimizing every conceivable cost, including labour - in other words they will bring low-wage, part-time jobs. Classic race to the bottom.

[esquire]

Selinger took it on the chin for raising the PST because he promised not to, but crappy sell job aside it wasn't the worst idea, provided that the revenue was going to be dedicated to infrastructure as intended.

I know a few ultra conservative senior-partner type dudes who hate all government spending except on infrastructure. That's the one kind they're OK with.

[optimusREIM]

I think if there's one thing that we should be splurging on its infrastructure. Roads, sewers, transit, projects that facilitate the development of the economy.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I think if there's one thing that we should be splurging on its infrastructure. Roads, sewers, transit, projects that facilitate the development of the economy.

But will the money end up in the places that actually have an economic impact, or will it end up where it makes politicians look good? And when a government is committed to sloshing tax dollars around on infrastructure, how much do costs increase as suppliers realize that they don’t need to be quite as competitive anymore, with lots of contracts around for everyone?

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

About the only industry booming in this province is in social services!

You're dreaming. Early retirements everywhere as a result of service changes and cuts in per diem services for recipients. All agencies forced with 20% cuts to their yearly budgets and middle management layoffs everywhere.

No booming there I assure you.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Andy6

But will the money end up in the places that actually have an economic impact, or will it end up where it makes politicians look good? And when a government is committed to sloshing tax dollars around on infrastructure, how much do costs increase as suppliers realize that they don’t need to be quite as competitive anymore, with lots of contracts around for everyone?

I understand that this is the outcome in the current political climate. But I would just love to be the one to make the decision to get with the times. They'd fight me harder than Duff Roblin when he pushed for the floodway but I believe that if someone were to come along that was able to properly articulate a vision for the province and specifically for modernizing our rapidly deteriorating infrastructure then people might rally behind them.

It's probably going to take a person willing to sacrifice their political career to get the thing pushed through. I'd happily do it if only I were in a position to run for Premier ...maybe one day

[dmacc]

So it sounds like it will be city policy to beg and whine to the province for extra infrastructure money.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5071485/w...g-roads-money/

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by dmacc

So it sounds like it will be city policy to beg and whine to the province for extra infrastructure money.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5071485/w...g-roads-money/

Beg and whine? It's clear you have very little understanding of municipal finance. The province committed to spending this money, and then has decided to suddenly not hold up it's end of the deal. Asking for them to hold up their end of the agreed-upon deal is hardly "begging and whining" unless you're the type of person who hates commitment and stability.

Imagine that you live in an old house and work really hard to earn money to fix it up. And in recognition of this, your boss agrees to give you a raise which you will use to help fund roof repairs. Your paycheques at the beginning of the year reflect your new increased salary, so you make arrangements with contractors to begin repairs. Then a quarter of the way through the year, your paycheques are suddenly the same as they were before you got the raise. What do you do? Do you stop your roof repairs or do you spend less elsewhere to make up the new shortfall? Do you ask your boss what happened or just let it slide? Do you try and get back the raise you were promised or do you just roll over and take it?

The city is doing what any responsible government would do: ask for what they were promised. They would be doing local taxpayers a disservice if they didn't. SMH.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

Beg and whine? It's clear you have very little understanding of municipal finance. The province committed to spending this money, and then has decided to suddenly not hold up it's end of the deal. Asking for them to hold up their end of the agreed-upon deal is hardly "begging and whining" unless you're the type of person who hates commitment and stability.

Imagine that you live in an old house and work really hard to earn money to fix it up. And in recognition of this, your boss agrees to give you a raise which you will use to help fund roof repairs. Your paycheques at the beginning of the year reflect your new increased salary, so you make arrangements with contractors to begin repairs. Then a quarter of the way through the year, your paycheques are suddenly the same as they were before you got the raise. What do you do? Do you stop your roof repairs or do you spend less elsewhere to make up the new shortfall? Do you ask your boss what happened or just let it slide? Do you try and get back the raise you were promised or do you just roll over and take it?

The city is doing what any responsible government would do: ask for what they were promised. They would be doing local taxpayers a disservice if they didn't. SMH.

This is why I am so frustrated with politics in this province. We have a spineless mayor up against a bully for a premier. Great working conditions. And as a result, Winnipeg roads get worse and worse with no visions for LRT or any type of mass transit system that the city needs to be moving towards. No vision in this province whatsoever- just angry politics. It makes me so angry.