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  #1761  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2013, 1:44 AM
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Dr Awesomesauce Dr Awesomesauce is offline
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I've been wondering about this but I was too afraid to ask. Perhaps it's too close to an election year to do something as radical as a bus lane pilot project.

Stupid City Council. If anybody needed a hit off the old bong, it's this group. Too bad they don't have the sense.
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  #1762  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2013, 2:56 PM
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Perhaps they'll finish it sometime in September instead of before Labour Day.

Just seems dumb to start adding bus lanes after Labour Day, the roads are busier and the students are back. Drivers could have an easier time adjusting to the new bus lanes after Labour Day.
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  #1763  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Perhaps they'll finish it sometime in September instead of before Labour Day.

Just seems dumb to start adding bus lanes after Labour Day, the roads are busier and the students are back. Drivers could have an easier time adjusting to the new bus lanes after Labour Day.
I tweeted the 3 councilors who publicly support the bus lane. Hoping to se a response on the start date.
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  #1764  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2013, 4:40 PM
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Delayed yet again until later this fall...

http://raisethehammer.org/blog/2767/...y_lane_delayed

If they don't install the transit lane this year Metrolinx will take the money back. All quick win projects MUST be spent by the end of 2013. Perhaps their strategy? Hope not.
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  #1765  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2013, 7:12 PM
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Approximately $1.4M of the Quick‐Wins funding was slated to go toward enhanced bus stops on the A- and B‐lines, and (outside of Main & MacNab/Main & Longwood where encroachments were under consideration) these improvements could be accomplished with little to no traffic disruption, and certainly by the end of year, independent of a transit-only lane.

How many stops would be created is another question: Appendix C of the Quick Wins Projects Update (PW11079d) lists 16 potential stops, but the explanatory notes around A and B-Line Passenger Amenities notes that "ten (10) to twelve (12) stops can be developed within available budget." Site surveys were scheduled for this month with installation of test locations was beginning Sept/Oct 2013 and continuing through end of year, so fingers crossed.

A bit nonplussed by the replacement of three-sided bus shelters with single-panel updates -- heading into winter, it doesn't seem like the most obvious way of encouraging ridership -- but realtime bus schedulers will be a welcome improvement.
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  #1766  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2013, 5:03 PM
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New PRESTO plan means after 11 rides, HSR is free
(CBCHamilton, Samantha Craggs, Sept 16 2013)

City hall hopes to save more than half a million a year by getting more of Hamilton’s transit users to use plastic PRESTO passes.

Hamilton lags far behind other communities in use of the pass: Just 7.7 per cent of all HSR trips use PRESTO cards compared to 60 per cent of transit rides in other communities.

More users will mean more savings.

The city is implementing a loyalty pilot program that means free rides for users in an effort to get more riders using their PRESTO passes for local transit. It will also set up three more locations where users can load up their passes.

As of Oct. 14, the city will implement a loyalty program that means PRESTO users pay for 11 rides in a week. Every subsequent ride in that calendar week is free.

It is also setting up three more locations where riders can load their PRESTO cards.

The more people who use their PRESTO pass, the more money it will save taxpayers, said Don Hull, Hamilton’s director of transit. Currently, it costs the city more than $500,000 extra per year to operate both the PRESTO and the paper system.

“Right now we have a duplicate system, so we’re paying for both,” Hull said.

“We have to remove the parallel system. Once we do, the operating costs will go down substantially.”
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  #1767  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2013, 8:41 PM
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HSR should drop the tickets and the monthly pass and go with just the Presto monthly pass or cash fare. It would save in not having to print them, plus it eliminates losses due to counterfeit tickets and passes.
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  #1768  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2013, 9:06 PM
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The loyalty program and adding more locations to topup cards should bring Hamilton in-line with the other cities currently using PRESTO. There should have been self-serve kiosks installed at Macnab, Eastgate and Limeridge right off the bat. They definitely didn't plan this thing out too well.
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  #1769  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2013, 9:09 PM
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When we moved here I was impressed that Presto was available on HSR. I use it for HSR & GO Transit. HSR must work hard to distribute Presto cards widely. All library branches and rec centers are obvious places for Presto POS hardware. HSR could also rent one of the empty storefronts in Jackson Square or City Centre, on a temporary basis, for Presto distribution.

I don't use the Presto Monthly as I just reload the e-purse as needed. Like markbarbera, I think getting people to use Presto Monthly exclusively will stop the duplication.
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  #1770  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2013, 10:43 PM
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I wish we had the cool metro card system like Montreal instead of the paper system. And, I only know one person who uses her Presto card haha.
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  #1771  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 12:46 AM
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I just wish Toronto would integrate it more fully...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrillion View Post
I wish we had the cool metro card system like Montreal instead of the paper system. And, I only know one person who uses her Presto card haha.
What's the difference between Presto and the Montreal card system?
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  #1772  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 1:37 AM
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Technologically theres no difference at all between PRESTO and OPUS (Montreal). You buy the card for a small fee, load it up and tap it with 2 hour transfers. The thing Montreal has over us is that you can buy pretty much every type of fare. 1 trip, 2 trips, 10 trips, evenings, day pass, 3-day pass, weekly, monthly. From what I remember, anything over a single ride ticket is also a tappable card. When I was in Montreal over the winter I was buying those evening passes like nuts since they were only $4.00 (not even the price of 2 fares) and good from 6pm to 5am.

Coming back to the Hamilton fare system was pretty rough.
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  #1773  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 1:53 AM
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Joey Coleman tweeted tonight that when Presto uptake in Hamilton is widespread, and paper tickets are eliminated, HSR plans to make the Presto-based fare the same as the cash fare.

That flies in the face of the policy of every other entity using Presto, including the TTC (which is slowly rolling out Presto). GO continues to sell a single-fare ride. Will HSR stop accept $2.55 cash in the fare box?

Presto is, in part, a loyalty program which helps build and retain riders on participating transit systems. For HSR to depart from this is ridiculous.
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  #1774  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 3:22 AM
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OC Transpo dished out around 145,000 free Presto cards to push adoption. That's something the HSR should consider.


Hamilton has a long had a sticky relationship with transit, capably captured in Centre for Community Study’s How Hamilton Works (July 2005):

“Between 1996-2001, Hamilton saw a net decline in the percentage of workers who used public transit as a means to commute to work. This is in contrast to the other top 8 CMAs (by population), the majority of which saw an increase in the percentage of transit commuters.… the percentage of those who use public transit across all age categories is about half of the national average suggesting that Hamiltonians are currently not transit users. Consequently, the percentage of those who are drivers across all age categories is higher than the national average.”


Presto's adoption issues in the 905 were flagged in the Auditor General's 2012 Annual Report:

"Since going into service approximately two years ago, Presto’s overall usage within participating GTHA transit systems as of March 31, 2012, was only about 18%. Although seven of the eight municipal transit agencies in the 905 area code have implemented Presto, overall Presto usage on those systems was even lower, at only 6%. These transit agencies currently cannot completely eliminate their old fare systems in favour of Presto because of some of the fare card’s limitations....

Several of these agencies indicated to us that a good portion of their ridership (nearly a third in some regions and municipalities) are considered low-income and either cannot afford to load the minimum $10 currently required by the Presto card or do not have bank accounts or credit cards and therefore cannot load the cards online. The initial $6 charge for the card also acts as a disincentive for these riders to migrate to Presto.

For these reasons, GTHA transit systems within the 905 area code may need to maintain some form of disposable fare media (defined as media that are good for only a short term—either a single trip or multiple trips over the course of a day—such as tickets, tokens or day passes).

These agencies cited the following additional reasons why they cannot completely eliminate their existing fare systems and force their ridership to migrate to Presto:

• Not all Presto-related transactions can be done online. For instance, to load monthly passes or if a student or senior wants to register for a card, the rider must physically go to a Presto location. But many municipal transit systems have only one location where in-person Presto transactions can be carried out. GTHA municipalities and transit systems within the 905 area code indicated to us that point-of-sale terminals installed in such locations as convenience stores would provide riders with greater access, but given the current low demand and the nearly $5,000 cost of installing a single terminal, very few are being installed...."



Fare-wise, the Auditor General's report also notes:

"Currently, there are 10 public transit agencies in the GTHA, each with its own fare structure and a separate system for collecting fares. As a result, for example, a person travelling from a local bus in one GTHA municipality to the GO Train and then to the City of Toronto transit system must pay three different fares. One of the RTP [e Regional Transportation Plan]’s key strategies is to “implement a region-wide integrated transit fare system by 2012 that allows users to pay a seamless, integrated fare for all transit systems across the region.... As noted earlier, a key success factor of the RTP was to develop a seamless and integrated fare for all transit systems across the GTHA that would allow riders to cross regional and municipal boundaries using different transit systems by paying just one fare rather than having to pay an individual fare for every system travelled on."
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Last edited by thistleclub; Sep 17, 2013 at 3:45 AM.
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  #1775  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 12:44 PM
movingtohamilton movingtohamilton is offline
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Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
..."Several of these agencies indicated to us that a good portion of their ridership (nearly a third in some regions and municipalities) are considered low-income and either cannot afford to load the minimum $10 currently required by the Presto card or do not have bank accounts or credit cards and therefore cannot load the cards online. The initial $6 charge for the card also acts as a disincentive for these riders to migrate to Presto...."
Thanks for this, thistleclub. The Auditor report lays bare the chronic illness of Hamilton: poverty. I did not see any reference to it in the City's recent musings on Presto uptake.

Lack of Presto use on HSR is not surprising. My anecodotal view of "riding the bus" is that public transit in Hamilton is seen as the transport of last resort. People ride because they have to, not because they want to. Low-income ridership is obvious, on my route. I notice that there is almost no private-sector advertising on the buses; advertisers see no reason to advertise, so riders are fed a diet of public-sector ads.

From my own observation, most riders use cash or tickets, and get paper transfers. I see monthly passes shown by students and people heading to/from work (not 100% sure of this).

Presto is just one issue facing HSR; overall, pubic transit here is not seen as "the better way". It's "just for poor people and students". This attitude becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and an endless loop (to mix metaphors!). Trying to fix Presto uptake without a hard look at the overall picture may be a waste of time.

What say you?
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  #1776  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 3:11 PM
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In Ottawa, they planned to get rid of paper tickets, but the problem was a lot of social services give out paper tickets. And it's for things you might not even think of, for example, people without cars that need to get out to suburban hospitals.
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  #1777  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 6:27 PM
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Some occasional users are probably going to remain unaccounted-for, but it'd be nice to think that Presto could accommodate a range of users and fare levels. The whole point is to remove headaches, after all.

En route to LRT, there may be more pressing issues. In evaluating the cost-effectiveness of a system, you generally have to consider revenue passengers. The HSR estimates its transfer rate is between 30% (HSR historical estimates) and 56% (observed by IBI and detailed in Exhibit 3-24 of its 2010 Operational Review).

At the time of that report, there were roughly 36,000 weekday boardings of the HSR on the B-Line routes. Even if you opt to factor in the HSR's transfer rate, you’re looking at slightly more than 25,000 daily revenue passengers. Early reports suggest LRT would need 40,000+ full-fare boardings per weekday in order to be viable; a consultants' report into the economics of Hamilton LRT projected a need for about 34,000 riders per weekday for the LRT line to break even on its operational costs. If transfer rate is 30% and the B-Line corridor boasts 25,000 revenue passengers, we would appear to be about two-thirds to three-quarters of the way there.

Even then, IBI has noted that the HSR’s average fare is 25% below its peer group average, so any performance metrics using a peer group metric (such as the Greater Golden Horseshoe Travel Forecasting Model) would presumably need to address this variation.


Calculations such as these are complicated by the fact that the HSR’s transfer rate estimate is system-wide, and the B-Line sees a high-than-average rate of transfers, this being the nature of a transit spine that connects a number of other transit nodes. A sizeable chunk of ridership along that line is also made up of students and U-Pass riders, whose fares occupy the lower strata of discounts, significantly below standard adult fare levels. U-Pass users still count as "revenue passengers", but it's unclear how to weigh them since they're free to ride ad infinitum at no additional cost and, conversely, revenue would accrue to the HSR even if they never took the bus.

A related unknown (at least unknown to me – I would welcome clarification if anyone has some to lend) is how B-Line rider revenue and service efficiency relates to the larger HSR. I assume that currently, revenues from the high-capacity, nearly fare-rational routes along the B-Line corridor go into a general revenue fund for the HSR. In any calculation that earmarks B-Line revenue for B-Line operational costs, that may no longer be the case.

Collectively, the B-Line routes that Metrolinx envisions being converted to LRT account for nearly half of the system’s total ridership. It’s probably not quite this neat, but let’s assume that because those lines serve nearly half of all HSR riders, they generate roughly half of all HSR revenue. With the arrival of LRT, those funds would no longer help underwrite low-performing routes. They would offset the LRT operating cost (eg. 300 local O&M jobs, a notable surge from the HSR’s company-wide staffing levels of 600) while the under-performing majority of HSR routes, many of which branch off the B-Line, would potentially experience new operational pressures as a result. It’s a tricky balance, and to be honest I don’t have a clear sense of where the HSR stands.


Going back to Presto, there is another concern expressed in the Auditor General's report that will be of interest to data wonks:

“…the transit agencies indicated to us that the system currently lacks back-end support for reporting and financial reconciliation of transactions. To obtain ridership information, many transit agencies have had to design their own programs for extracting information from a data dump provided by Presto. The transit agencies also indicated that they have little assurance that the system is capturing all riders who use their respective systems.”

Granted, even Presto's compromised data would be a quantum leap from the HSR’s current reality – barely-there ridership information that cannot adequately measure or accurately account for the varied cash fares, assorted passes and transfers that make up the bulk of its user base. How the City evaluates and verifies HSR performance metrics is anyone’s guess. One bright note: the Operational Review's comparison of HSR data to IBI findings (Exhibit 3-24 again) revealed that HSR data underestimated revenue boardings by 8%.
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Last edited by thistleclub; Sep 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM.
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  #1778  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2013, 11:59 PM
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off topic a bit, but does anyone know if the balance on your presto card expires after inactivity?
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  #1779  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2013, 12:58 AM
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I also have a question about PRESTO. I don't use it for HSR, but I used to use it to get to Toronto on the GO Train. Then it was simple, load the card online, tap on at Aldershot (or Hamilton), and that's it. It knew that I was going to Union Station because it was pre-programmed that way. So how does it work with the HSR? With a flat fee for the bus, I guess it doesn't matter where you go, but what if you need to make a connection or two?
How does the PRESTO card work for a bus system.
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  #1780  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2013, 2:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDP View Post
I also have a question about PRESTO. I don't use it for HSR, but I used to use it to get to Toronto on the GO Train. Then it was simple, load the card online, tap on at Aldershot (or Hamilton), and that's it. It knew that I was going to Union Station because it was pre-programmed that way. So how does it work with the HSR? With a flat fee for the bus, I guess it doesn't matter where you go, but what if you need to make a connection or two?
How does the PRESTO card work for a bus system.
Google is your friend
http://www.hamilton.ca/CityServices/.../PRESTOHSR.htm
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