PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

It may be easy to laugh at Sun Air right now, but they seem to be pretty determined to set up a more proper hub. Start with cities like those, then add on a next layer of cities like Erie, Akron/Canton, Buffalo, Harrisburg, etc. Then add in the fact that they interline with the other major airlines here in Pittsburgh and it is not an inconsequential addition. Sure, they'll never be the next US Airways, but these passengers can feed our mainline flights and possibly drive more growth with legacies. Growth is growth, and PIT is finally starting to rack up some wins. Connecting growth is even better.

Here's my big stupid bet for the next year or two: Virgin in PIT, solving a lot of our west coast service issues via SFO. That is, if United keeps fucking around with their lame seasonal / red-eye schedules and nobody else steps up for SAN / LAX / SEA. Their SFO hub is pretty serious – lots of vacation destinations out of it, and the Virgin brand is flashy enough to overcome what happened with JetBlue's arrival here.

The lack of a regular hours year round direct flight to the Bay Area is ridiculous. Considering the amount of tech companies here there should be at least one daily nonstop to SFO. Going through MSP or Denver isn't too bad. But having to fly out of the way and connect through Philly, Charlotte or Phoenix is a pain.

[eschaton]

As an aside, I stopped in the new Market Street Grocery around lunch. I was hoping to actually browse a bit, but it was so crowded I could not.

It was not crowded due to the food, but the deli counter. I knew there would be a deli counter in the "grocery" but they made the decision to place it as an island in the center of the (rather small) space. While only one side of the deli island appeared to be staffed and stocked, the line seemingly was entirely for the deli, wrapping completely around in a U-shaped manner, and completely blocking the limited number of grocery items (which were placed along the wall.

I saw no evidence of stairs inside. Wasn't there supposed to be a second floor to the market?

I'll attempt to go back in during some time other than lunch. But it is not a bodega as it's currently structured. It's a deli counter and a coffee bar with around 1/10th of the amount of groceries as a Rite-Aid (although admittedly higher quality items).

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

He may be well qualified to be a planning director, but how in the hell is planning for suburban-style architecture in a major urban core "moving forward?" Wow... I thought Houston and Atlanta were examples of NOT how to plan urban cores. Does this guy see Allegheny Center as an overwhelming success? If so, by what logic?!

BTW, I studied city planning at West Chester University. Granted, it's not as fancy as a planning degree at Penn or any of the other schools on his resume, but I know my stuff!

The problem with an Atlanta or a Houston isn't suburban style architecture, it's a lack of density and how that architecture functions in relation to the street and surrounding buildings.

The fact is the drivers of the new Pittsburgh economy are tech, R&D (energy, robotics, medical) specialty manufacturing, and professional services. These industries neither need nor want Class-A highrise office space. They want open, flexible floor plans; inexpensive rents; proximity to the universities; and access to other related businesses. If not for allowing these building types in places like Hazlewood, Bakery Square, the Strip and PTC, these businesses would be at Southpoint, RIDC West or Cranberry, if they were even in Pittsburgh at all. It's not as if Silicon Valley and Austin are especially urban themselves.

Mr. Gastil is being very realistic about development in Pittsburgh. And it seems his efforts are focused on making what is built better.

[dfiler]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Indianapolis and Milwaukee added to nonstop destinations from PIT.

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/tra...s/201504240252

I was excited to read this. I currently drive to Indiana rather than fly because there are no direct flights. Then I read that it is a seven seat aircraft. Nevermind.

[Minivan Werner]

I'm surprised that would even leave out of PIT and not like, the county airport.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The lack of a regular hours year round direct flight to the Bay Area is ridiculous. Considering the amount of tech companies here there should be at least one daily nonstop to SFO. Going through MSP or Denver isn't too bad. But having to fly out of the way and connect through Philly, Charlotte or Phoenix is a pain.

Connecting through MSP, DEN, or DTW isn't terrible; I connected through DTW and MSP on a travel to Seattle from Philly myself. However, if someone is pressed for time it could lead to a loss of productivity if you're flying 90 minutes to MSP only to wait a few more hours for the remaining 3 or 4 hour leg to the West Coast. Without a non-stop flight, a 6-hour journey can become as long as 9 hours...

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The problem with an Atlanta or a Houston isn't suburban style architecture, it's a lack of density and how that architecture functions in relation to the street and surrounding buildings.

The fact is the drivers of the new Pittsburgh economy are tech, R&D (energy, robotics, medical) specialty manufacturing, and professional services. These industries neither need nor want Class-A highrise office space. They want open, flexible floor plans; inexpensive rents; proximity to the universities; and access to other related businesses. If not for allowing these building types in places like Hazlewood, Bakery Square, the Strip and PTC, these businesses would be at Southpoint, RIDC West or Cranberry, if they were even in Pittsburgh at all. It's not as if Silicon Valley and Austin are especially urban themselves.

Mr. Gastil is being very realistic about development in Pittsburgh. And it seems his efforts are focused on making what is built better.

I'm just saying that six to ten-story buildings make sense in places like East Liberty, and I get it that education, technology, and science-based corporations aren't going to take up space in a considerably taller structure. In places that are in or around the CBD (Lower Hill, Downtown, Northside), it doesn't make sense to see buildings under 10 stories going up in these areas.

[PITairport]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

The first non-Florida destination i've heard of being added in a long, long time.

Allegiant has announced MYR and will start in a few months, and FPO (Freeport, Bahamas) is another new one as a charter destination. But you're right, its been a long time since a non-leisure destination has been announced other than the 5 small Sun Air destinations. DAL will be coming online in late summer as well, but I wouldn't call that a new destination with DFW down the road.

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Um, are 5 of those Cessna flights?

That might have been sarcasm, but Cessnas is exactly what they are. Cessna Caravans to be exact, some of which are leased from this Hawaiian airline.

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

Considering the amount of tech companies here there should be at least one daily nonstop to SFO.

I believe the largest corporate connection with the Bay Area is actually Chevron. But I agree there is room for better service.

Originally Posted by dfiler

I was excited to read this. I currently drive to Indiana rather than fly because there are no direct flights. Then I read that it is a seven seat aircraft. Nevermind.

It amounts to a corporate jet you would be riding in. Interior pic here:
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/8...#axzz3YGa6NgzB

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The fact is the drivers of the new Pittsburgh economy are tech, R&D (energy, robotics, medical) specialty manufacturing, and professional services. These industries neither need nor want Class-A highrise office space.

Professional services includes all the sorts of firms filling up Class A space Downtown--lawyers, accountants, and so forth. Other tenants Downtown include UPMC, 4Moms--it ends up being pretty diverse.

Incidentally, in many cities tech companies are starting to fill downtown Class A space. San Francisco, for example, is competing effectively with Silicon Valley for tenants:

http://valleywag.gawker.com/san-fran...-81-1610499566
http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/25/tech-office-space/

Generally, Class A vacancy and rent trends in Downtown, and also Oakland, suggest there is in fact robust, growing demand for that sort of space.

That doesn't mean it is bad for there to be things like Bakery Square--in Larimer. But in the Lower Hill, we should be laying out an expansion of the Downtown/Oakland sort of development.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by PITairport

It amounts to a corporate jet you would be riding in.

Pure anecdote, but I was doing some business in Indianapolis for a while, and it was a huge pain having to fly there. I would totally have taken a flight like that instead (assuming it wouldn't be excessively expensive).

[BrianTH]

Sort of tangential but with some long term implications, there is a new analysis of Governor Wolf's tax proposals, which is causing some controversy:

Report (PDF):

http://www.ifo.state.pa.us/download...._April2015.pdf

Representative articles:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/20...s/201504250065

http://triblive.com/state/pennsylvan...#axzz3YJpvfh2c

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...by_tax-sh.html

The Wolf Administration is disputing some of the results, but I also think there is a basic truth here, which is that raising a large portion of the new revenues through the sales tax and (especially) the tobacco tax means at least some of the new tax burden is going to be felt at lower incomes, particularly among tobacco users.

[Austinlee]

Check out the amazing number of and quality of mid rise infill in San Diego. Our city could take some notes on building quality.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=216793

[BrianTH]

Interesting article on development trends in Allegheny City (aka the North Side), including some eye-popping statistics on appreciation:

http://triblive.com/business/realest...#axzz3YJpvfh2c

Personally, I expect the North Side to be a steady development area for a long time to come. It has a lot of great housing stock, and obviously is near Downtown. And as is implied in the article, for quite a while it should always have a mix of areas from well-established to fringe, such that developers will have a range of options (and price points) to choose from.

[pyrohy]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Interesting.

Peduto says 'good enough' no longer acceptable standard for Pittsburgh development

What a great article. I think this must have gone unnoticed too much. It really should be mailed out to every developer and planner in this region and to those looking to invest here.

Peduto makes a great point about the shitty name Almono, even though the site only sits on the Mon.

"One way to start at the LTV site, Mr. Peduto suggested, was to "stop calling it Almono and start calling it Hazelwood.""

Although in classic PG comments fashion there are some gems, including why Peduto is allowing Point Park to demo historic buildings.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Interesting article on development trends in Allegheny City (aka the North Side), including some eye-popping statistics on appreciation:

http://triblive.com/business/realest...#axzz3YJpvfh2c

Personally, I expect the North Side to be a steady development area for a long time to come. It has a lot of great housing stock, and obviously is near Downtown. And as is implied in the article, for quite a while it should always have a mix of areas from well-established to fringe, such that developers will have a range of options (and price points) to choose from.

Agreed completely. I am very impressed with the diversity of all the Northside neighborhoods. There is plenty of established history but also a massive amount of potential. Specifically I'm thinking of the hundreds of vacant lots in Manchester; remaining development on the Northshore; Repairing the central Northside to be more functional (Allegheny Center - I have high hopes for the new NY owners); East Deutchtown redevelopment; And then all the neighborhoods with varying types of architecture.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by PITairport

Allegiant has announced MYR and will start in a few months, and FPO (Freeport, Bahamas) is another new one as a charter destination. But you're right, its been a long time since a non-leisure destination has been announced other than the 5 small Sun Air destinations. DAL will be coming online in late summer as well, but I wouldn't call that a new destination with DFW down the road.



That might have been sarcasm, but Cessnas is exactly what they are. Cessna Caravans to be exact, some of which are leased from this Hawaiian airline.





I believe the largest corporate connection with the Bay Area is actually Chevron. But I agree there is room for better service.



It amounts to a corporate jet you would be riding in. Interior pic here:
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/8...#axzz3YGa6NgzB

I was actually being sarcastic but I am not surprised that I have been vindicated.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

remaining development on the Northshore; Repairing the central Northside to be more functional (Allegheny Center - I have high hopes for the new NY owners)

I agree those could be huge, particularly in combination. As we have discussed a bit before, smart infill development around the streets passing under the highway/railroad could much better tie together the North Shore and North Side. If the remaining lots on the North Shore and Allegheny Center were also done well, that could be a very big attractor for further development throughout the North Side.

[BrianTH]

Yet another anecdote, but when I was clerking out in the Altoona area, one of my co-clerks relied on the then-USAir flight to PIT for connecting service. I think SunAir is now the only commercial service they've got. Which in turn reminds me of Martha's Vineyard--my in-laws had a place there at one time, and the last leg of our flights was small planes. I remember once that I was sat in front next to the pilot. As we were coming in to land, we slipped out of low clouds and were clearly off target. I heard the pilot say "Whoops!", and then he juked the plane over a bit and we almost immediately landed.

Fun times!

[Evergrey]

My parents are taking Sun Air out of Bradford tomorrow... I'll let yinz know what they thought of the flight...

http://www.bradfordairport.net

[Evergrey]

• Video Link

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I agree those could be huge, particularly in combination. As we have discussed a bit before, smart infill development around the streets passing under the highway/railroad could much better tie together the North Shore and North Side. If the remaining lots on the North Shore and Allegheny Center were also done well, that could be a very big attractor for further development throughout the North Side.

Yes.

I would be fine if most of Allegheny Center were left in place but the awful mall were torn down or dramatically changed to, as you said, connect with Federal Street and basically reconnect with the urban fabric on all sides.