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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 7:45 AM
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How is it that building affordable housing & providing alternative (cheap) transportation not helping eliminate blight? As for proving the area is still blighted...isn't much of Old Town included in the River District? Does it get any more blighted than that?
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 9:00 PM
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I am curious: Do most people, on this forum, also feel that Old Town is blighted?
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 9:04 PM
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^ No, old town is not "blighted."
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
I am curious: Do most people, on this forum, also feel that Old Town is blighted?
I would use the word decrepit, not blighted.
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2009, 10:41 PM
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Urban decay is a process by which part of a city falls into a state of disrepair (decrepit).
-Without urban renewal this was & would have remained the case IMO
It is characterized by depopulation
-Yes
economic restructuring
-Yes
property abandonment
-Not sure
high unemployment
-Yes, relatively
fragmented families
-Not sure but certainly not normal
political disenfranchisement (Relative inequalities perceived by one societal group result in increased tensions between groups and between the discriminated group and the government.)
-Yes
crime
-Yes, at least above average
desolate and unfriendly urban landscapes.
-subjective, but I have a feeling a majority would agree
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 2:52 AM
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^um, Old Town/China Town isn't even close to anything like 'disrepair'. That's a pretty harsh word.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 3:35 AM
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As for the blighted issue:
PacificNW- I ONLY asked if there was a more blighted neighborhood in Portland (to which noone STILL has answered)...nothing more. Don't go on & ask.."does anyone else feel this way" You're not fooling anyone. You were trying to pit people together & unfortunately NJD obliged.

NJD- The City & Portland Development Commission would beg to differ. How about expressing your opinion as just that.

Mark- My post was talking in Past tense not present tense. My implications of Old Town being blighted are just that...implications. I do not know enough about urban blights "standards" to assess a statement, however after reviewing the criteria listed above it seems compelling.

Finally, if any of my opinions are flat out wrong please point them out & I will happily acknowledge. Thus far that has never happened b/c different avenues have been taken.

Last edited by Okstate; Mar 27, 2009 at 4:54 PM.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 3:54 AM
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↑↑ Bewilderment is the first word that came to my mind.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 4:08 AM
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Quote:
You were trying to pit people together & unfortunately NJD obliged.
um, ok... this is a 'forum' yes?

Quote:
NJD- The City & Portland Development Commission would beg to differ.
the City and the PDC are responsible for razing entire Italian, African and other ethnic neighborhoods because they were "blighted." Do you honestly think that was just? How is their current push of "remaking" Old Town any different? (Ask the businesses how they feel about getting pushed out because they are on "prime real estate" that is "blighted")

Quote:
How about expressing your opinion as just that. Take notes from Jordan L.
I stated my opinion, why do I need to 'take note'?


Old Town is an amazing ASSET to Portland as a whole, and should be left alone by the City. Read some Jane Jacobs if you are at all confused as to what I mean.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 4:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
↑↑ Bewilderment is the first word that came to my mind.
Honestly, I'm bewildered that you're bewildered, but can only take you for your word. If you're serious then I apologize, truly.

However, why did you say "does anyone else feel this way" when I in FACT did not say I felt ANY way?

Last edited by Okstate; Mar 27, 2009 at 4:39 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 4:19 AM
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NJD- Yes this is a forum.
You presented your sentence as a statement not an opinion. I only cared b/c I was mad that I was "falsely" given an opinion in the first place from which you were able to disagree with.
When did I say the City or PDC was in the "right" on ANY issue they've ever made. Why are you lumping me with them?
I never said Old Town isn't an asset. It was a truly great asset in the past & has great potential to become an even greater asset than presently IMO. I'm NOT saying the city is that tool to make it happen.
I have read Jane Jacobs & have written reports on Robert Moses.

Last edited by Okstate; Mar 27, 2009 at 5:00 AM.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 4:35 AM
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^Old Town is an asset right now, that is my opinion and my point.
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2009, 4:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD View Post
^Old Town is an asset right now, that is my opinion and my point.
I was editing during your post to make it more clear why I said what I said. I agree it's an asset. I do think IMO it has even greater potential.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2009, 2:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okstate
I agree it's an asset. I do think IMO it has even greater potential.
I agree!
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2009, 1:48 PM
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I think there's a lot of charm to Old Town, but I think part of that charm is actual how decrepit it is. You can't really "fix" Old Town without destroying it too.

I'll point out the elephant in the room that no one seems to want to touch: Old Town's "blight" is because of the Portland Rescue Mission on Burnside. It is what it is. We can't ignore homelessness, and setting up facilities in City Center instead of somewhere away from the city to manage it is a good thing, but wherever the PRM is located you'll notice more "grit".

The Skidmore Fountain MAX stop is a lot less clean and a lot more drab than most, or certainly than it could be. But what exactly do you propose doing?

We can't legislate against homelessness, just like we can't legislate against recession. It's something that I don't like, (especially when I'm accosted for money by those clearly homeless by choice... I'm looking at you dreadlock-sporting "punk" teenagers with pet dogs...), but it's a reality of our life and our society (and pretty much every other society as well).

Honestly, if we want to begin addressing homelessness, to remove some of the grit of Old Town, we need to vastly improve access and quality of mental health treatments, because many of those not homeless by choice have impediments to either normal societal living, or don't understand their situation very well.

The other day I was with my girlfriend waiting for the bus and a homeless, though not unkempt, black guy engaged us in conversation. I was wearing a leather jacket with an American flag on it, and he launched into a 15 minute speech on how proud he was of Barack Obama, and how great this nation was to have overcome at least some of its racism and move forward in other ways.

It was one of the most hopeful conversations I've ever had.

And it was SO Portland. I couldn't imagine having it in any other city. The guy didn't ask me for anything, he just wanted to talk, and I just talked with him.

The main culprits of homelessness are mental disability, drug adiction, lifestyle choice and criminal history, and sometimes a combination.

Old town has old streets, old sidewalks, old buildings, and worn people. It doesn't have bustling businessmen, trendy restaraunts and spiffy shopping areas.

So "fixing" Old Town becomes an exercise of deciding what it is you want Old Town to be, and then which elements about Old Town you have to change to make it that way.

Being dominated by brick and concrete gives it a definite worn down and decrepit feel. The "street people" certainly emphasize that perception. But I'm really not sure what it is you'd do with Old Town to change that, or what it is you would change it to.
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2009, 4:39 PM
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Using the criteria listed in post #45 which area(s) do you guys see as being blighted in town? Portland has a lot less blight than many cities but on relative Portland terms what do you guys think?
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2009, 7:33 PM
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^ Definitely "felony flats" (outer SE, Flavel, 82nd, Foster - that area) and much of East Portland - 122nd, 181st. MAX is often blamed - by those who are ideologically opposed to it to begin with and use it as a scapegoat - for this, but it's even worse away from the train - Stark, Division, Powell - they're all pretty bad E of 82nd. And it's pretty entrenched; I don't really see any way to turn it around, because of the huge inventory of aged, obsolete - undesirable - tract housing.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2009, 6:02 AM
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Quote:
clearly homeless by choice... I'm looking at you dreadlock-sporting "punk" teenagers with pet dogs
Quote:
The main culprits of homelessness are mental disability, drug adiction, lifestyle choice and criminal history, and sometimes a combination.
JordanL, I'd be curious to hear how you've become such an authority on homelessness.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2009, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tworivers View Post
JordanL, I'd be curious to hear how you've become such an authority on homelessness.
So far as homeless by choice, I had a person close to me that was exactly what I described for a while, and because of that I got to meet many of their friends "in the same situation", and yes, many of them were homeless by choice.

As far as the causes of true homelessness... that's a very studied situation... nothing I said is original, it's been studied and said before...
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Yeah... I've worked for almost 7 years with homeless adolescents in one of the few independent living programs in the country of its kind. It's always easy to paint people with a broad brush, but the reality tends to be more complex.

No offense, but your first quote that I used above reminded me of some of the more ignorant and prick-ish comments I've heard over the years. While I know there is a contingent of "homeless-by-choice" teenagers (and adults), your choice of stereotypes is weak and the vast majority of kids who are on the streets, or on the edge, are not there by choice.

Your list of the "main culprits" of homelessness, too ("studied" or not), shortchanges reality and conveniently includes the category of "lifestyle choice". I've worked directly with disproportionate numbers of LGBT youth thrown out of their homes, kids who were living in cars with a homeless and jobless parent, African and Russian immigrants, kids who had been working full time jobs while staying at one of the shelters downtown (or trying to find time to study for the GED, or attending high school or PCC or PSU), Hispanic migrant workers, and on and on, including your culprits of drug and alcohol addiction, mental health, and felony records. I have never once met a youth for whom homelessness was a lifestyle choice.

I agree with you, btw, about the need for vastly improved mental health care.

On the positive side, the housing first philosophy that was legislated into being by the city and county 4 or 5 years ago appears to be working pretty well. I'm guessing that that is a significant part of the reason why the problem seems somewhat less pervasive these days when you're walking around downtown.
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