Toronto, Vancouver experiencing rental renaissance as appetite for condos wanes

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

Did you even watch the video man?

I didn't - I'd really like to but it's tough to justify 20+ minutes just to verify your citation. If you could post less time-consuming links to back up your opinions it would be much appreciated.

[s211]

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

Did you even watch the video man?

That would be a negatory. A CBC story? Might as well read Pravda.

[casper]

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

Quite the contrary, as renters, they would prefer living in "amateur" landlords-owned property you described. As the units will be in much better shape. Buildings that are managed purely for rental are maximized for yield and usually in poor condition. Especially since the property manager is usually over-worked from having to manage way too many units, again to maximize the company's bottom-line. The only upside is that renters wouldnt get kicked out because the owner suddenly decides to sell the place.

Here's a documentary from CBC:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows...ID/2188903865/

I was speaking from the investor perspective. When I lived in Saskatoon, I did rent in highrise Boardwalk building for a time. They are a solid operator and do a good of keeping the building well maintained. Some of the building owned by smaller investors are not well maintained.

I have a some money invested in Boardwalk now. I think the return is better than owning a one-off condo and trying to rent it out.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I was talking about the Metro in general. North Van is not some magical distant land where everything is different.

If you can't see the slowdown you're willfully ignoring the time it takes to sell out buildings now. It's still healthy, just not as insane for condos.

Yeah North Van is very attractive in alot of ways but it is pretty atypical and isolated considering it's extremely limited road and transit connections to the rest of the region. I know I would never buy anything there unless I was retired. I think for most people it is completely off the radar.

I'm looking to buy a condo in the next two years and every single development I checked out in Burnaby was either sold out or close to it with limited selection left. Between Solo District, Amazing Brentwood, Station Square and Modello there are 100s if not thousands of presold units.

[TourOdeon]

Originally Posted by vanman

Yeah North Van is very attractive in alot of ways but it is pretty atypical and isolated considering it's extremely limited road and transit connections to the rest of the region. I know I would never buy anything there unless I was retired. I think for most people it is completely off the radar.

I'm looking to buy a condo in the next two years and every single development I checked out in Burnaby was either sold out or close to it with limited selection left. Between Solo District, Amazing Brentwood, Station Square and Modello there are 100s if not thousands of presold units.

Plus it rains a lot more than the rest of the region, making it a really depressing place to live at times

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Add to that the speculation lottery, the social pressures to buy or be priced out forever (ridiculous), super cheap money, CMHC (takes risk away from banks) and the boomers need to keep people buying (so someone will pay overinflated prices for units when they retire).

The odds are stacked against purpose-built rentals.

And as for the difference between condo-rentals and purpose-built... Although not renting now, I much preferred a properly managed building to renting off an amateur landlord who needs help to pay off the mortgage in the unit. In addition to the professionalism, you end up having more parity with your neighbor and it seems to be a better neighbourly atmosphere, if that makes sense.

As a buyer I would much rather get into a strata that restricts or doesn't allow rentals at all (barring hardship). Nothing against renters, but they don't have anything invested in the building. Therefore they tend to be laxer about damage to common property or letting strangers in. Plus the constant move-in, move-outs are very hard on hallways and elevators.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by vanman

Yeah North Van is very attractive in alot of ways but it is pretty atypical and isolated considering it's extremely limited road and transit connections to the rest of the region. I know I would never buy anything there unless I was retired. I think for most people it is completely off the radar.

Facts (demographics, working population statistics and much higher than average prices) do not support your opinion. If it is off the radar it is because it is too expensive due to high demand. I dunno why you are off on this North Van tangent - we are supposed to be talking about general condo demand.

Also the rain thing is only true for northern neighbourhoods, which are also double the average price of most of Vancouver proper. Let's use facts here.

[vanman]

Listen man I have nothing against North Van. I'm just not familiar with the condo market there. Vancouver, Burnaby and New West is what I'm familiar with and sales are brisk in most developments.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by vanman

Yeah North Van is very attractive in alot of ways but it is pretty atypical and isolated considering it's extremely limited road and transit connections to the rest of the region. I know I would never buy anything there unless I was retired. I think for most people it is completely off the radar.

I'm looking to buy a condo in the next two years and every single development I checked out in Burnaby was either sold out or close to it with limited selection left. Between Solo District, Amazing Brentwood, Station Square and Modello there are 100s if not thousands of presold units.

If you do find a condo that you like use caution if there are rental restrictions as that will make it hard to sell in the future.

[casper]

Originally Posted by st7860

If you do find a condo that you like use caution if there are rental restrictions as that will make it hard to sell in the future.

I am surprised that a condo board can impose rental restrictions in BC.

When I lived in Saskatoon, I was on the board of our condo. There were a few members of the board that kept wanting to propose restrictions on renting. Our property manager would tell us every time the issue came up that it was not legal to restrict owner property rights in that way and his experience was anytime a bylaw change to that effect was passed when updates were submitted to the government for filing they bylaw would be rejected.

Same thing would apply to age restrictions. I am surprised in BC condo associations can get away with it.

[Pinion]

In my building everything is grandfathered in. i.e. there is no renting or children but those who bought before the bylaws are free to ignore them.

Living in such tight quarters is bad enough with these restrictions, I'm glad there is choice for those of us who want it. The vast majority of buildings will always allow rentals due to the economic advantages.

[TourOdeon]

Originally Posted by Pinion

In my building everything is grandfathered in. i.e. there is no renting or children but those who bought before the bylaws are free to ignore them.

Living in such tight quarters is bad enough with these restrictions, I'm glad there is choice for those of us who want it. The vast majority of buildings will always allow rentals due to the economic advantages.

No children, how cruel can these people be..

[st7860]

Originally Posted by casper

I am surprised that a condo board can impose rental restrictions in BC.

When I lived in Saskatoon, I was on the board of our condo. There were a few members of the board that kept wanting to propose restrictions on renting. Our property manager would tell us every time the issue came up that it was not legal to restrict owner property rights in that way and his experience was anytime a bylaw change to that effect was passed when updates were submitted to the government for filing they bylaw would be rejected.

Same thing would apply to age restrictions. I am surprised in BC condo associations can get away with it.

Its due to Provicial law- the strata property act etc. If owners are experiencing hardship they can petition the strata council to allow rentals. Intelligent councils know that restrictions hurt their resale values.

Was there any strata drama in Saskatoon? In BC strata drama is common.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

No children, how cruel can these people be..

There's nothing cruel about it. If you have a kid after buying they don't try to kick you out.

Also I'm pretty sure you're AudiA3.

[casper]

Originally Posted by st7860

Its due to Provicial law- the strata property act etc. If owners are experiencing hardship they can petition the strata council to allow rentals. Intelligent councils know that restrictions hurt their resale values.

Was there any strata drama in Saskatoon? In BC strata drama is common.

Not much drama, in my case. It was a town house development where about half of the 40 units were owned by investors. There would be the odd complain about why we could not restrict rentals. Biggest challenge was getting sufficient attendance at the AGM.

I now own in a BC strata. Far more intrusive organisation. Lots of rules, no kids under 19. It is weird. No idea how they can get away with half of it.

[JamesOwnz]

So because condo developers are now building condos only as rental buildings that mean the market is waning?

I've been in the bosa building in Chinatown and if I recall it is 1600 for one bedroom.. in Chinatown!

Don't really see a big plus in that lol

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by JamesOwnz

So because condo developers are now building condos only as rental buildings that mean the market is waning?

I've been in the bosa building in Chinatown and if I recall it is 1600 for one bedroom.. in Chinatown!

Don't really see a big plus in that lol

This article was posted over 12 months ago but it's appropriate given the enigma surrounding the "bubble." There is a HUGE issue when you see 1-2 bdrm basement suites going for 800-1200 in the burbs. Forget about renting apartments and condos...

The trickle down effect is real...

Houses become priced out for locals. Many are downsizing and will continue to downsize as property values rise. So price of townhomes rise, and many become enticed to sell those as well as they downsize! You have a bunch of middle aged people moving into 1-2bdrm condos. Then you see the demand for condo/apartments skyrocket as many people are trying to enter the market while at the same time competing with those who have sold and are looking to downsize. Rental units become fewer and it becomes simple supply and demand as property owners can charge an arm and a leg for rentals.

That's why there will never be a bubble burst in the Metro Van area. If anything, the price of condos and townhomes will begin to spike soon.

For renters...many will be faced with the task of sacrificing their livelihood and shacking up with others or be forced to migrate further away from the region.

[retro_orange]

[giallo]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

This article was posted over 12 months ago but it's appropriate given the enigma surrounding the "bubble." There is a HUGE issue when you see 1-2 bdrm basement suites going for 800-1200 in the burbs. Forget about renting apartments and condos...

The trickle down effect is real...

Houses become priced out for locals. Many are downsizing and will continue to downsize as property values rise. So price of townhomes rise, and many become enticed to sell those as well as they downsize! You have a bunch of middle aged people moving into 1-2bdrm condos. Then you see the demand for condo/apartments skyrocket as many people are trying to enter the market while at the same time competing with those who have sold and are looking to downsize. Rental units become fewer and it becomes simple supply and demand as property owners can charge an arm and a leg for rentals.

That's why there will never be a bubble burst in the Metro Van area. If anything, the price of condos and townhomes will begin to spike soon.

For renters...many will be faced with the task of sacrificing their livelihood and shacking up with others or be forced to migrate further away from the region.

What's happening in Vancouver now (as far as downsizing, renting) echoes late 1990s San Francisco to a tee. Too bad we don't have their economy to help offset the costs.

[ryanmaccdn]

That's what my parents are doing currently. They reno'd the basement for a two bedroom family focused basement suit. They live 5 mins walk to 22nd Street in New Westminster (22 min Skytrain ride to Granville Station, Montessori School a block away, a huge park down the block, cherry blossom street) and are getting rent offers of interest at $ 1700 per month.

Plus two international students sharing a bedroom upstairs (1800$ per month) they have a nice retirement income of $3500.

Insane.... but good for them.

Originally Posted by logicbomb

This article was posted over 12 months ago but it's appropriate given the enigma surrounding the "bubble." There is a HUGE issue when you see 1-2 bdrm basement suites going for 800-1200 in the burbs. Forget about renting apartments and condos...

The trickle down effect is real...

Houses become priced out for locals. Many are downsizing and will continue to downsize as property values rise. So price of townhomes rise, and many become enticed to sell those as well as they downsize! You have a bunch of middle aged people moving into 1-2bdrm condos. Then you see the demand for condo/apartments skyrocket as many people are trying to enter the market while at the same time competing with those who have sold and are looking to downsize. Rental units become fewer and it becomes simple supply and demand as property owners can charge an arm and a leg for rentals.

That's why there will never be a bubble burst in the Metro Van area. If anything, the price of condos and townhomes will begin to spike soon.

For renters...many will be faced with the task of sacrificing their livelihood and shacking up with others or be forced to migrate further away from the region.