Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by someone123

For what little it's worth, the attempts to make loan words in English sound more French almost invariably sound bizarre to my ears. I'd rather unilingual English speakers just go all in and call them croysants or freedom buns or whatever. Dropping the "r" sound is not more correct; there's an "r" sound in French and it is significant. "Croix" and "quoi" aren't the same word, for example.

It's the same in French when people borrow English words and stumble over them. The right thing to do is to make them conform to the set of phonemes you can speak and the person you're speaking to can easily disambiguate.

I applaud Middle America for its honest use of language in this particular case.

Oh, I very much disagree. We're not Middle America, we're bilingual Canada. I think we should be retaining as much French pronunciation as possible where it occurs.

But not in an ostentatious way. It may sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I think there's a happy medium here that is proper and best suited to anglo-Canada. I cringe when I hear craw-sayant, but I also don't like the way CBC radio personalities break out the Quebec accents for French names in the middle of otherwise English sentences.

I'm sure it's the house policy, but it's jarring. You're following along with a story when all of a sudden a name like "Giselle Bergeron" is smothered in the caramel vowels of Quebec City, and you half wonder if somehow the signals of the French feed didn't get crossed over into the English feed.

I suspect my reaction is due to my geographical location outside of the bilingual loop of Ottawa and environs. I'm guessing that people in Ottawa would disagree with me on this. But "bilingual Canada" actually feels distant and abstract once you get west of Kingston on the 401, never mind Saskatchewan. Which is probably why so many people around here say "craw-sayant."

[Nashe]

"Cress-Ent Roll"

Just kidding.

I can't roll R's but I try. Comes out kinda like "Kwrusson", with the emphasis on the "sson"...

[Acajack]

It's always a bit jarring to me to hear people pronounce the T as the end of croissant.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by someone123

For what little it's worth, the attempts to make loan words in English sound more French almost invariably sound bizarre to my ears. I'd rather unilingual English speakers just go all in and call them croysants or freedom buns or whatever. Dropping the "r" sound is not more correct; there's an "r" sound in French and it is significant. "Croix" and "quoi" aren't the same word, for example.

It's the same in French when people borrow English words and stumble over them. The right thing to do is to make them conform to the set of phonemes you can speak and the person you're speaking to can easily disambiguate.

I applaud Middle America for its honest use of language in this particular case.

"Freedom buns"!

[Aylmer]

Like "Crêpes" and "Boeuf Bourguignon", I pronounce "Croissant" exactly as I would in French ("Crhwuh-ssã" or "Crhwah-ssã", except for plural, which I pronounce like the French "Croissance"). Anything else just seems awkward in my mouth.

However, I don't make a big deal of it: I'll occasionally hear an American say "croissant" correctly but the word is dripping with emphasis and a drawn-out, "look-at-how-distinguished-I-am-speaking-a-French-word" manner which makes me cringe. I say it quickly and unceremoniously.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Like "Crêpes" and "Boeuf Bourguignon", I pronounce "Croissant" exactly as I would in French ("Crhwuh-ssã" or "Crhwah-ssã", except for plural, which I pronounce like the French "Croissance"). Anything else just seems awkward in my mouth.

However, I don't make a big deal of it: I'll occasionally hear an American say "croissant" correctly but the word is dripping with emphasis and a drawn-out, "look-at-how-distinguished-I-am-speaking-a-French-word" manner which makes me cringe. I say it quickly and unceremoniously.

I'm with you on Boeuf Bourguignon (although it would more commonly be Beef Bourgignon in English), but for me a crêpe becomes a "crape" in English. I think in fact that is the preferred English pronunciation.

Edit: I would find it odd if someone said "my-oh-nehz" in English rather than "May-yo-naze".

[Aylmer]

Mayonnaise is one word which I completely massacre: "May'naze" (equal emphasis)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Mayonnaise is one word which I completely massacre: "May'naze" (equal emphasis)

I could accept "may-uh-naze" or "may-ah-naze", but I'd want to keep at least a hint of that syllable in the middle. Please try harder!

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Mayonnaise is one word which I completely massacre: "May'naze" (equal emphasis)

I say May'naze. Then again, I massacre lots of words:
-Tuesday: CHEWS-day
-Pronounciation: pro-NOUN-see-ay-shun
-Schedule: SKED-jew-ull

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I say May'naze. Then again, I massacre lots of words:
-Tuesday: CHEWS-day
-Pronounciation: pro-NOUN-see-ay-shun
-Schedule: SKED-jew-ull

TYOOS-day (also Tree, Toe-rohn-toe and Trip. I like t's.)
Pruh-nun-see-ay-shun
SKE-djwul (or SHE-djwul if I'm being pompous )

[kwoldtimer]

I heard someone on TV say "jew-luh-ree" yesterday. I always think that sounds like the antics of Jewish people. I prefer "jew-el-ry"

[Aylmer]

I've never heard that last pronunciation - I only ever hear "jew-luh-ry" or, less often, "jewl-ry".

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I say May'naze. Then again, I massacre lots of words:
-Tuesday: CHEWS-day
-Pronounciation: pro-NOUN-see-ay-shun
-Schedule: SKED-jew-ull

I don't think I could deal with a person that says chews-day But I'm not sure what's wrong with the next two? Sound pretty much like what I'd say:

TYOO-sday
Pruh-NOUN-tsee-EH-shun
SKED-jew-ull

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I've never heard that last pronunciation - I only ever hear "jew-luh-ry" or, less often, "jewl-ry".

Same thing, I suspect. I'm not sure how you could get from the "w" to the "l" in "jewl" without having another syllable, even if it were very soft.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Same thing, I suspect. I'm not sure how you could get from the "w" to the "l" in "jewl" without having another syllable, even if it were very soft.

I guess it's more "jool". So "JOO-luh-ry" and "Jool-ry"

[kwoldtimer]

This thread gives me an idea for a new CBC TV program. "Elocution for Canadians", Tuesdays and Thursdays after the local news.

Dare I admit that I say "Tyous-day? And that my suggested CBC program would be after the local "nyews"? At least that's were I think it would fit on the CBC "sked-yule". (Bet ya thought I was going to say "shed-yule", but that's a step too far).

[rousseau]

On CBC radio show "the 180" the other day the head of some sort of advocacy body for nuclear power in Canada pronounced the pertinent word in question as nu-kyu-lar. Repeatedly. The interviewer used the correct pronunciation. It was like a tennis match.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Oh, I very much disagree. We're not Middle America, we're bilingual Canada. I think we should be retaining as much French pronunciation as possible where it occurs.

But not in an ostentatious way. It may sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I think there's a happy medium here that is proper and best suited to anglo-Canada. I cringe when I hear craw-sayant, but I also don't like the way CBC radio personalities break out the Quebec accents for French names in the middle of otherwise English sentences.

I'm sure it's the house policy, but it's jarring. You're following along with a story when all of a sudden a name like "Giselle Bergeron" is smothered in the caramel vowels of Quebec City, and you half wonder if somehow the signals of the French feed didn't get crossed over into the English feed.

I suspect my reaction is due to my geographical location outside of the bilingual loop of Ottawa and environs. I'm guessing that people in Ottawa would disagree with me on this. But "bilingual Canada" actually feels distant and abstract once you get west of Kingston on the 401, never mind Saskatchewan. Which is probably why so many people around here say "craw-sayant."

I couldn't disagree more with you on that one! Gisèle Bergeron's name (and FWIW, that's the correct spelling ) should be pronounced the same way whether in Russia by a Russian, in Japan by a Japanese, or in Canada. A given individual's full name has, from that person's point of view, only one possible pronounciation, the correct one.

I cringe when someone on CBC Quebec butchers the pronounciation of a Québécois name. What goes through my mind is "to fill up a Quebec job opening for a federal/crown corp, they couldn't even manage to find someone competent enough to be able to pronounce Québécois names correctly?!?"

And of course it goes both ways. For example, I expect everyone on Radio-Canada to be able to pronounce "Stephen Harper" correctly (i.e. the Anglo way) even though the name is right in the middle of a sentence in French. Would make me cringe too, if they couldn't.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

On CBC radio show "the 180" the other day the head of some sort of advocacy body for nuclear power in Canada pronounced the pertinent word in question as nu-kyu-lar. Repeatedly. The interviewer used the correct pronunciation. It was like a tennis match.

I heard that too. I wasn't really paying attention, but assumed that the "nu-cyu-lar" fellow was an American.

[kwoldtimer]

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