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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Thundertubs View Post
I certainly recognize that Chicago wins on most criteria, but in terms of large skyscrapers the top-5 from Detroit simply capture my imagination more than the top-5 from Chicago.
that's fine, but the question in this thread wasn't "which city's top 5 pre-war buildings capture your imagination most?", it was "who's got the best collection?" when art museums are rated, they aren't rated by the 5 best works in the museum, they're rated by the entire body of their collection, and in that vein, there's just no way that detroit's "museum" can hang with chicago's. there are simply far too many absolutely critical and vital examples of some of the most important prewar skyscraper architecture in chicago for detroit to come in ahead of it. chicago is one of only two cities on the planet where the entire skyscraper building form was birthed into existence. i just don't see any legitimate way to argue that new york and chicago aren't #1 & #2 when it comes to their overall pre-war skyscraper collections. they are the two cities that taught the whole world how to build vertical cities.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundertubs View Post
We having nothing quite like the Penobscot, Guardian, Book, Cadillac, Broderick, or Stott towers.
and those are all wonderful buildings, but it's also important to remember that detroit has nothing quite like CBoT, civic opera, chicago temple, palmolive, pittsfield, lasalle-wacker, 1 north lasalle, jeweler's, mather tower, carbide & carbon, metropolitan tower, american furniture mart, hotel intercontintal, randolph tower, tribune tower, wrigley building, 333 N michigan, the allerton, the merchanidise mart, etc. chicago has got pre-war skyscraper quality every bit as good as detroit's best, and then just overwhelms it with numbers. and that's not even getting into all of the shorter chicago school buildings - reliance, auditorium, carson pierre scott, fisher, chicago building, brooks, etc.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 4, 2011 at 8:32 PM.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 4:46 PM
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LA has an very good collection of Art Deco & Streamline Moderne towers.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
and detroit has nothing quite like CBoT, civic opera, chicago temple, palmolive, pittsfield, lasalle-wacker, 1 north lasalle, jeweler's, mather tower, carbide & carbon, metropolitan tower, american furniture mart, hotel intercontintal, randolph tower, tribune tower, wrigley building, 333 N michigan, the allerton, the merchanidise mart, etc. chicago has got pre-war skyscraper quality every bit as good as detroit's best, and then just overwhelms it with numbers. and that's not even getting into all of the shorter chicago school buildings - reliance, auditorium, carson pierre scott, fisher, chicago building, brooks, etc.
Damn I love my city.
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Last edited by HomrQT; Jan 4, 2011 at 5:26 PM.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 7:39 PM
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after pouring through the data and looking at tons of pics over on emproris, i've got what i think are my top 5 cities for pre-war skyscrapers:

1. NYC
2. chicago
3. Detroit
4. Pittsburgh
5. Pennsylvania

anyone agree or take exception to my choices/rankings?
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 4, 2011 at 8:10 PM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:07 PM
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Pennsylvania is a city?
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
Pennsylvania is a city?
whoops, brain fart.

my real top 5:

1. NYC
2. chicago
3. Detroit
4. Pittsburgh
5. Philadelphia

anyone agree or take exception to my choices/rankings?
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:30 PM
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I think KC still has legitimate case to be in the top 5.

Places like Cincy, SF, Baltimore and Buffalo might round out the top 10. Sadly, I think all of Canada combined would not make the top 10 of US Cities.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:36 PM
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i don't know about that. sun life, the royal york, commerce court north, the marine building, the sun tower, the dominion building, the aldred, the architects building and the bell hq would be a hell of a 1936 skyline.

i agree on your general point, though - skyscrapers weren't our thing.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:39 PM
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Philly has to be #3.

Its core is primarily pre-war, and is significantly larger than Detroit's core.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:45 PM
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This thread could be awesome if it had more pictures.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flar View Post
I think KC still has legitimate case to be in the top 5.
KC does very well at the very top of the spectrum with it's triumvirate of 400+ footers, but both pittsgburgh and philly have similar, or even better, top end numbers height wise, plus definitively larger numbers of buildings in the lower height ranges.

as far as aesthetics, KC does have some beautiful pre-war buildings indeed, but it's relatively thin numbers keep it out of the top 5 for me in terms of its overall pre-war skyscraper collection.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 8:57 PM
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Well, "better" is always a subjective arguement. I find Kansas City's collection of prewar highrises "better" than Pittsburgh's (not Philadelphia's), top to bottom (talking grand apartments to the 400+ club). I personally would list it as:

1. New York City
2. Chicago
3. Detroit
4. Philadelphia
5. Kansas City

Alphabetically, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and San Francisco round out the top ten for me. Though individually, Boston, Cleveland, Columbus, Los Angeles, and Seattle each have a skyscraper that stands-out heavily for me.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 9:37 PM
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here are some height and numbers data from SSP's database. the numbers include buildings with height estimates too, so take it all with a big grain of salt, it's FAR from definitive. i didn't bother compiling new york because it's so obviously WAY out ahead of everyone else, perhaps even combined!

pre-war buildings over 500':

chicago: 11
pittsburgh: 2
baltimore: 1
cincinnati: 1
cleveland: 1
detroit: 1
boston: 0
buffalo: 0
houston: 0
kansas city: 0
los angeles: 0
minneapolis: 0
montreal: 0
newark: 0
philly: 0
san francisco: 0
seattle: 0
st. louis: 0
toronto: 0






pre-war buildings over 400':

chicago: 21
detroit: 6
pittsburgh: 4
kansas city: 3
philly: 3
cincinnati: 2
houston: 2
minneapolis: 2
newark: 2
san francisco: 2
toronto: 2
baltimore: 1
cleveland: 1
boston: 1
los angeles: 1
montreal: 1
seattle: 1
buffalo: 0
st. louis: 0




pre-war buildings over 300':

chicago: 37
philly: 17
detroit: 13
san francisco: 12
pittsburgh: 10
houston: 6
kansas city: 5
minneapolis: 4
montreal: 4
boston: 3
buffalo: 3
cincinnati: 3
newark: 3
st. louis: 3
cleveland: 2
los angeles: 2
seattle: 2
toronto: 2
baltimore: 1



pre-war buildings over 200':

chicago: 146
philly: 50
detroit: 29
san francisco: 21
pittsburgh: 20
st. louis: 17
toronto: 15
kansas city: 13
baltimore: 12
cincinnati: 12
cleveland: 12
newark: 11
los angeles: 10
seattle: 10
houston: 9
buffalo: 8
minneapolis: 8
boston: 6
montreal: 4
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 4, 2011 at 11:13 PM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 9:47 PM
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Given those numbers, I think a top five stand out pretty clearly as
1. New York
2. Chicago
3. Detroit
4. Philadelphia
5. Pittsburgh

You might quibble over the 3-5 rankings, but those 5 seem to be a tier above the rest IMO. KC looks like a distant 6th.

Except that your numbers leave out some key cities. What does Boston look like? San Francisco? Saint Louis? New Orleans? Minneapolis? Milwaukee?
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 9:50 PM
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Cincinnati would have two in that 500+ category if the 10 foot spire atop the old Central Trust (now PNC) Tower wasn't dismantled. Ugh.


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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post

pre-war buildings over 300':

chicago: 37
detroit: 13
pittsburgh: 10
philly: 17
san francisco: 12
kansas city: 5
cincinnati: 3
cleveland: 2
baltimore: 1
minneapolis: 4
newark: 3
los angeles: 2
buffalo: 3

montreal: 4 (1 over 400')

maybe we're not so bad.

not great though, considering size and wealth.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Except that your numbers leave out some key cities. What does Boston look like? San Francisco? Saint Louis? New Orleans? Minneapolis? Milwaukee?
i've added more cities. san francisco is definitely up there in the numbers game.

milwaukee and new orleans do nothing to really shake things up, they lack upper end height.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 10:29 PM
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Besides Montreal and Toronto, Vancouver has the Marine Building and Sun Tower. Then there is Edifice Price and Chateau Frontenac in Quebec City, and the Pigott Building in Hamilton. Chateau Frontenac is a massive building, not necessarily a classic skyscraper format. The Pigott Building in Hamilton (seen in my avatar) looks like a classic gothic skyscraper but is only 18 storeys. All of the Canadian buildings are dwarfed by the massive ones in the US.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 10:39 PM
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our 400-footer is massive, but lacks verticality.

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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2011, 10:53 PM
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Part of the difference is that there was a much bigger size gap between Canadian and US cities during the pre-war era. Montreal was not too far off from cities like Cleveland and Toronto and Vancouver were much smaller in relative terms back then. In terms of urbanization Canada in the 1960s was probably where the US was in the 1920s.

It also seems like the US had more standardized architecture and building materials earlier on. I suspect that there were big national construction companies even in the 1910s.
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