Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by fever

Those articles are all from the same source, and not one I'd trust with details. Actually, that's not really fair. There are no details on this. It's all speculation.

The Province's news release says "The Surrey expansion will involve extensions serving the 104th Avenue, Fraser Highway and King George Highway corridors."

Hey - that's plural!! Could it be TWO lines - one for 104th and one for King George Highway?

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_rele...096-001877.htm

[deasine]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

[B]Yellow Line is the Skytrain extension of the expo line as per Falcon.

Is that what he really wants? I remember we were discussing about this before... on the Provincial Transportation Plan, yes this is true that's the idea of the Surrey extension. But when he gave a speech earlier, he said it would go to Guildford... meaning it would probably be Officedweller's green line approach.

[Dave2]

>The platform at the Broadway station on the Millennium line.

I thought that was a mistake too, but on second thought, Broadway station *is* on the Millennium Line; every station except the four Surrey stations are on the Millennium line... so they're technically correct

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Dave2

>The platform at the Broadway station on the Millennium line.

I thought that was a mistake too, but on second thought, Broadway station *is* on the Millennium Line; every station except the four Surrey stations are on the Millennium line... so they're technically correct

But isn't the photo of VCC-Clark Station? You can see the Clark Drive bridge in the background with the guideway protection mesh structures.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by officedweller

But isn't the photo of VCC-Clark Station? You can see the Clark Drive bridge in the background with the guideway protection mesh structures.

Indeed it is... now it's open for interpretation.

1. Stupid media failing to recognize that it is VCC-Clark Station not Broadway or Commercial Drive station.
2. When Falcon announced a "Broadway to UBC" rapid transit line, this is what he really meant by Broadway Station.
3. Some mischievious hacker went in and replaced the photo of Broadway Station with VCC-Clark station

Anything else?

[deasine]

You guys have to remember that the UBC Line is not confirmed to be SkyTrain. Jlousa has stated that the Provincial Government is still considering it to be LRT, though of course SkyTrain is the likely contender here. If it was LRT, it would begin at Broadway Station. Until the type of technology is confirmed, the UBC Line is technically still from Broadway Station to UBC. That's where the media is confused now.

And let's go back and talk about the Surrey extension now.

[jlousa]

that's correct, no choices have been made and if it's LRT it will almost certainly begin at Broadway.

I think it's pretty clear in reading the documents though that they are tilted to favour an extension of Skytrain straight thru to UBC. They just can't tie themselves down by eliminating other options, so for all intents and purposes everything is still on the table right now.

[Distill3d]

here's my thoughts:



firstly, put in a Broadway/Commercial style crossover to join the two stations at Surrey Central, then run the new SkyTrain line down 104 Avenue to Guildford. Put the Guildford station above the skywalk section of the mall, then make the train turn onto 152 street and follow the plan from there.

[officedweller]

I think we're on the same page - that having the extension to Guildford zig up the hydro ROW doesn't make much sense. The question is whether to install switches before or after Surrey Central Station. If the switches are before (i.e. north), you'd have a new station on the 104th line right at King George. Both the new station and the existing Surrey Central station would have easy access to a bus loop situated between the two. See aerial on previous page.

Interesting though that the offiicial news release said Surrey "extensions" - plural.

[nickinacan]

Originally Posted by officedweller

....Both the new station and the existing Surrey Central station would have easy access to a bus loop situated between the two. See aerial on previous page.

The City of Surrey is actually planning to get rid of the bus loop and move to street side stops. I believe they are also planning to realign Surrey Central Station so that the entrance is on the new civic plaza, across from the current bus loop. This is all according to the Surrey Transit Village plan. Although the plan might change, I doubt that they will change their minds about removing the bus loop.

[geoff's two cents]

I'm still intrigued by paradigm4's suggestion that one continuous LRT line run down King George from Newton, turn just after Surrey Central station down 104th, and so on to guildford, and possibly south down 152nd.

As others have pointed out, there are no doubt some serious ROW issues on 104th, but some investigation should be able to show whether or not these are insurmountable. Some property acquisition would definitely have to happen, but there are some pretty dilapidated looking sites along 104th for which that should not be too difficult. Counterintuitive as it might seem, I wouldn't be opposed in principle to the road curving in places to get around some of the more established properties. As for turning radii, Guildford mall has one hell of a parking lot, and a sleek LRT cutting through that might be just the thing the upcoming revitalization of the mall needs - provided, of course, that LRT can be somehow incorporated into the final design.

While Skytrain would be hands down the most efficient mode of transportation, not only is it the most expensive; it's also very auto-friendly. While that would certainly work here, I also think that the Guildford Mall area needs a serious facelift, and a traffic-calming (and more aesthetically pleasing) LRT would likely accomplish the facelift operation in a more expedient fashion.

If necessary, the Skytrain backbone can be extended down Fraser highway in the future. As the fastest way to travel, it could still be used to connect communities - and will connect Langley and Surrey in the future much more efficiently if it does not go to Guildford. Not having Skytrain go to Guildford would also, I think, concentrate high density development in the Central City area, as opposed to sprawling it evenly between 152nd King George.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

I'm still intrigued by paradigm4's suggestion that one continuous LRT line run down King George from Newton, turn just after Surrey Central station down 104th, and so on to guildford, and possibly south down 152nd.

I think that's what's provided for in Surrey's official transportation plan.
The Skytrain extension(s) proposed by the Province would represent a deviation from that plan (but something that Surrey would have imposed on it and would have to live with).

I think Surrey would end up with a decent network either way (if Guildford is connected by LRT or as a Skytrain stop). It really depends on whether you would need convenient access from the Valley to Guildford, since connecting it by LRT only would mean that Valley commuters would have to enter the core and then backtrack to Guildford via LRT (or take a bus up 152nd from a Skytrain station unless the LRT heads south on 152nd and connects with a Skytrain station).

[nname]

If Skytrain is going to run down Fraser Hwy eventually, I think it would be more useful for it to run through a more populated area (ie. Guildford) instead of going through a forest, despite the longer distance and higher cost. (and how much extra cost would this line need compared to building the skytrain through forest PLUS the LRT on 104st that's running almost parallel?)

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

here's my thoughts:



firstly, put in a Broadway/Commercial style crossover to join the two stations at Surrey Central, then run the new SkyTrain line down 104 Avenue to Guildford. Put the Guildford station above the skywalk section of the mall, then make the train turn onto 152 street and follow the plan from there.

Falcon's extension plan runs down 100th not 104th

[jlousa]

Maybe there's someone on here that knows what's going on with the delays for the Guildford mall renovation.
It might provide some insight on what will be happening here.

Just playing a hunch, I don't actually know anything about the Surrey extension.

[fever]

Is there a press release on this? Not an article, an actual primary source?

It's possible this plan doesn't actually exist, and there's nothing to know.

[nickinacan]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Maybe there's someone on here that knows what's going on with the delays for the Guildford mall renovation.
It might provide some insight on what will be happening here.

Just playing a hunch, I don't actually know anything about the Surrey extension.

I'm not exactly sure either. The main component of the Guildford Mall renovation and expansion is the Wal-Mart which will occupy much of the current parking lot. Ivanhoe-Cambridge (Owner) has many projects on the go including Metrotower III and Crossiron Mills in Calgary, so I think they are a bit busy right now. I am sure they they are waiting to get the final verdict on the new skytrain route so they can finalize their plan and start construction on the mall, possibly incorporating the new station. It really needs it, especially considering the roof leaks in multiple places in the mall.

[fever]

od, those alignments look ok if they go with skytrain. The Guildford line would end up in Fleetwood, and the King George line would end up in Newton.

Both of those alignments are sort of borderline between light rail and skytrain. I think skytrain would be an acceptable choice, but there's not much benefit in choosing skytrain over light rail. The route from Fleetwood to Langley isn't the type of route that you'd normally find a metro line on. Skytrain's just not the right technology for long distances at grade, especially when there's an alternative corridor available.

I'm also a little concerned about operating issues on such a long line. A long delay in Surrey would be felt in Vancouver soon after. This already happens on the Expo line. People aren't going to be riding this end to end anyway (it would be too slow), and Surrey Central is as good a place as any to start a new line.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by fever

Is there a press release on this? Not an article, an actual primary source?

It's possible this plan doesn't actually exist, and there's nothing to know.

Quoted above - it says "extensions" - plural - and cites the 104th, Fraser Hwy and King George Hwy "corridors" - plural.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by fever

od, those alignments look ok if they go with skytrain. The Guildford line would end up in Fleetwood, and the King George line would end up in Newton.

Both of those alignments are sort of borderline between light rail and skytrain. I think skytrain would be an acceptable choice, but there's not much benefit in choosing skytrain over light rail. The route from Fleetwood to Langley isn't the type of route that you'd normally find a metro line on. Skytrain's just not the right technology for long distances at grade, especially when there's an alternative corridor available.

I'm also a little concerned about operating issues on such a long line. A long delay in Surrey would be felt in Vancouver soon after. This already happens on the Expo line. People aren't going to be riding this end to end anyway (it would be too slow), and Surrey Central is as good a place as any to start a new line.

thats why whatever they build should be a line unique to surrey and langely with transfers onto the expo line

same as why UBC should be unique to Vancouver with transfers