London's skyline is a growing mess (Commentary)

[muppet]

well personally, I consider myself middle class and definitely cannot afford that every week. And Im not forking out $100 a day to live in a single studio room as my cheapest option.

[picard]

Just been looking at london construction threads on another forum, there are incredibly 62 100m+ towers uc in london, including 7 200m+, with countless more prep/demo/app, there's also another hundred or so -100m (20fl+) uc plus two hundred or so more in prep/demo/app. It's becoming very un-european and more typical 'anglo' (big canadian influence in london)

[10023]

I really don't think there's a Canadian influence in London. Not at all.

What there is are banks, commercially-minded people (that's the Anglo-American mindset), growth, and an abundance of sub-standard postwar buildings in central areas that can be redeveloped.

It's actually kind of a shame that 1 Undershaft is replacing a very nice International style tower, however.

[picard]

Canary wharf was a canadian development and based on toronto, margaret thatcher invited the canadian developer to come to london and create this new bisiness district, it was a big political partnership between the two countries, thats why all the towers/streets in canary wharf have canadian names and look canadian in style.
Much of the other tower developments in london are built and developed by canadian firms like brookfield, who are currently building several big tower projects in london, including their first ever office tower project in the world built without a pre-let, (tho a canadian bank has just signed on as anchor tennant).
Canadian pension schemes are also responsible for much of the residential development going on in london. The high rise era in london is very canadian involved and influenced.

I agree with you about undershaft, it looks great but losing st helens tower is unfortunate as there weren't many of that style built in london,

[Ryanrule]

canada has a style?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Ryanrule

canada has a style?

To me, it sorta does. Canadian cities tend to have a more utilitarian streetscape/architectural style than in the U.S., and the highrises are more likely to be either concrete or Asian-style glassy.

It would be hard to mistake Toronto or Vancouver highrises for those in the U.S., IMO.

[isaidso]

^^ I'd agree with that although I'm not sure what's Asian about all glass skyscrapers. It's just what the bulk of towers 2005-present are built with. Many Canadian cities went through big growth spurts during these years so they have more all glass high rises than American cities typically do.

Modern Canadian skyscrapers do have a look to them. They're stripped down, no nonsense, minimalist, lots of glass, and pedestrian friendly at grade. The podium goes right out to the lot line and set backs are commonly used. If VW or Audi made a skyscraper it would be the typical Toronto or Vancouver high rise.

There's also Canadian Chateau Style which is almost exclusively found in Canada. It's a cross of French chateau and Scottish baronial. It became popular in Canada in the late 1800s/early 1900s. Canada's big railway hotels like the Chateau Frontenac, Banff Springs, and Royal York are the best examples of it.

Originally Posted by picard

Canary wharf was a canadian development and based on toronto, margaret thatcher invited the canadian developer to come to london and create this new bisiness district, it was a big political partnership between the two countries, thats why all the towers/streets in canary wharf have canadian names and look canadian in style.
Much of the other tower developments in london are built and developed by canadian firms like brookfield, who are currently building several big tower projects in london, including their first ever office tower project in the world built without a pre-let, (tho a canadian bank has just signed on as anchor tennant).
Canadian pension schemes are also responsible for much of the residential development going on in london. The high rise era in london is very canadian involved and influenced.

You're correct. Canary Wharf looks eerily like Toronto's traditional CBD for a reason. That said, it's not acceptable to give props to Canada. It's usually safer just to reclassify anything Canadian as 'American' then everyone is happy; no ones world view gets ruffled. Londoners see a tower and assume American without hesitation.

[osmo]

I also agree with the "Canadian Style" it is stripped down post-modern which is what the bulk of many of our office towers tend to look like.

Canary Warhf is what downtown Toronto would look like if it went through a building boom at that time, and it looks like what Calgary does but more modern. Lots of stripped down towers and lots of twins.

Another example is WTC Brookfield that looks oddly Canadian and was the predecessor to Canary Wharf.

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by 10023

I really don't think there's a Canadian influence in London. Not at all.

Are you serious? Theres a huge Canadian influence in London.

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's usually safer just to reclassify anything Canadian as 'American' then everyone is happy; no ones world view gets ruffled. Londoners see a tower and assume American without hesitation.

I wouldn't think they even see it as an American thing either, just a modern/1990s style office tower.

[10023]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

Are you serious? Theres a huge Canadian influence in London.

Ok?

I live here and do business here. I think I've met one Canadian the whole time, and he was an oil trader from Calgary.

[dc_denizen]

world financial center in NYC was built far before brookfield bought it (==took out lots of debt or invested their shareholders' capital in it), no?

how the hell does world financial center look canadian? if anything it looks kind of bostonian to me.

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

world financial center in NYC was built far before brookfield bought it (==took out lots of debt or invested their shareholders' capital in it), no?

how the hell does world financial center look canadian? if anything it looks kind of bostonian to me.

The World Financial Center was built by the Reichman's and their company, who last I checked are Canadian. Oh, the ignorance.

[picard]

Originally Posted by Ryanrule

canada has a style?

To me there is definitely a canadian style, in both condos and office towers. I like the fact that its office towers are a pure reflection of economic prosperity, they are roof height, no nonsense, same width from top to bottom, no fake height, its about getting as much sqr ft in as possible, which more accurately reflects genuine office demand (similar to US skyscrapers).

Theres something impressive about endless rows of big tall office towers, its why i prefer canary wharf to the other clusters in london.
People talk more about the city of london cluster, and i do like the designs, the great quality and great cladding of the COL towers, but it just looks a bit awkward having skyscrapers packed in so close together on a medieval street plan, it just doesnt look right to me. All the clusters in london are growing fast now but i still think canary wharf will be the best, there is so much being built there now, it will soon look like a proper canadian/american style downtown.
This is whats under construction right now (just in canary wharf).

The spire 235m UC
Landmark north 233m UC
Diamond tower 220m UC
South quay plaza 215m UC
Wood whatf tower one 204m UC
Wardian tower one 183m UC
Madison 182m UC
Wardian tower two 170m UC
Wood wharf tower four 155m UC
Baltimore wharf 150m UC
One bank street 147m UC
Maine tower 145m UC
Providence tower 136m UC
Novotel 124m UC
Harbour central 122m UC
Dollar bay tower 109m UC
Lincoln plaza 95m UC
7 limeharbour 86m UC
Horizons 81m UC
The liberty building 76m UC
Poplar business park tower one 74m UC
Poplar business park tower two 68m UC
Poplar business park tower three 53m UC
6-8 east india dock tower one 62m UC
6-8 east india dock tower two 59m UC

One park place 162m APP
North quay tower one 216m APP
North quay tower two 203m APP
North quay tower three 121m APP
Alpha square tower one 216m APP
Alpha square tower two 121m APP
South quay plaza tower two 192m APP
Wood wharf tower two 189m APP
10 bank street 187m APP
Wood wharf tower four 173m APP
Glengall quay 145m/54m/54m APP
Millharbour village tower one 142m APP
Millharvour village tower two 139m APP
Millharbour village tower three 126m APP
Millharbour village tower four 122m APP
Millharbour village tower five 122m APP
Millharbour village tower six 113m APP
Millharbour village tower seven 102m APP
Millharbour village tower eight 90m APP
Millharbour village tower nine 87m APP
Infinity tower one 127m APP
Infinity tower two 108m APP
Blackwall reach 127m APP
Wood wharf tower five 123m APP
South quay plaza tower three 115m APP
Westferry printworks tower one 106m APP
Westferry printworks tower two 64m APP
Westferry printworks tower three 51m APP
Wood wharf tower six 106m APP
Leamouth south tower one 101m APP
Leamouth south tower two 72m APP
Leamouth south tower three 56m APP
4-5 south quay square 100m APP
Wood wharf tower seven 92m APP
Wood wharf tower eight 90m APP
Wood wharf tower nine 89m APP

Project india 220m PRO
225 marsh wall 181m PRO
30 marsh wall 158m PRO
82 west india dock 137m PRO
Cuba street tower one 134m PRO
Cuba street tower two 85m PRO
54 marsh wall tower one 130m PRO
54 marsh wall tower two 98m PRO
East india dock tower one 114m PRO
East india dock tower two 110m PRO
East india dock tower three 90m PRO
East india dock tower four 86m PRO
East india dock development 20fl-40fl ×5 PRO

Canary wharf has cores rising all over the place, it will sure look impressive in a couple of years

[WhipperSnapper]

A Canadian style? Really? I don't see it. Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal all have pretty distinct styles and then you have the inspired international crap.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

The World Financial Center was built by the Reichman's and their company, who last I checked are Canadian. Oh, the ignorance.

The fact that the original ownership structure for World Financial Center was partially Canadian tells us nothing about whether it's "Canadian-style" architecture, whatever that means.

The developers, BTW, were from Austria, and the architect was Argentine. Does that mean the project also had an Austrian-Argentine style?

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The fact that the original ownership structure for World Financial Center was partially Canadian tells us nothing about whether it's "Canadian-style" architecture, whatever that means.

The developers, BTW, were from Austria, and the architect was Argentine. Does that mean the project also had an Austrian-Argentine style?

I never said anything about the architectural style (though it is Canadian). I was responding to the post that it was built before it was bought by Brookfield, the suggestion being that it had nothing Canadian about it before Brookfield bought it.

[nito]

Olympia & York of Canada certainly had a pivotal role in taking forward the idea of Canary Wharf (originally proposed by part of Credit Suisse), and there are similarities with O&Y’s other North American developments in their simple forms. One connection Canary Wharf shares with Toronto is the presence of the underground shopping mall connecting all the towers.

O&Y’s impact on Canary Wharf whilst pivotal was also short-lived; it went bust shortly after One Canada Square (the first skyscraper at Canary Wharf) was completed. The business has gone on to become a full-fledged property development company undertaking more adventurous projects such as the Herzog & de Meuron tower (see image below) at the neighbouring Wood Wharf site, as well as co-developing projects elsewhere in London such as 20 Fenchurch Street (aka the Walkie Talkie) in the Square Mile and the Shell Centre site on the South Bank by the London Eye. Canary Wharf Group is now majority owned by the Qataris.


Image sourced from Herzog & de Meuron: https://www.dezeen.com/2013/12/10/he...terplan-london

Canary Wharf was the primary focus of (what was a relatively low number) of skyscrapers in London, but the sky-high land prices and booming population have led to other skyscraper clusters emerging or planned for Vauxhall, Blackfriars, and Croydon.

[picard]

Olympia and york did go bust in 1992, but in 1995 they re-bought canary wharf and turned it into a huge success, they later sold it at a vast profit, after turning it into europes biggest financial centre, beating the city of london into second place.
Its a good thing that they finally got repayed for all the investment and faith they put into canary wharf, in 1992 it looked like a big failure and it bankrupted them, they invested billions just in the infrastructure before they even started the towers, this overstretched them and i think britain felt kind of bad that it had bankrupted olympia and york. But they bought it back, made it huge, and got big profits, so it worked out well for london and for olympia and york in the end. The big infrastructure spending and leap of faith olympia and york took on london was acknowledged and is why the towers/streets have canadian names

[ue]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

A Canadian style? Really? I don't see it. Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal all have pretty distinct styles and then you have the inspired international crap.

I'd agree Montreal is distinct, but the postwar architecture styles of Vancouver and Toronto are very similar and often cross-pollinate. The typical Anglo-Canadian vernacular is more utilitarian, modernist, parochial. High-rises are typically concrete boxes from the 1960s-1970s or post-1990 glass towers. There's some PoMo here and there, and some riskier contemporary designs, but they don't dominate as much as they do in American cities. Historically, there's also slight British and French influence as well, the Chateau style, which doesn't exist in the US for the most part, is very distinctively Canadian. Of course, like most things Canadian, there's a lot of American influence with some British and French thrown in for good measure.