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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 8:52 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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The water problem at the VG, they tried to fix it and failed. It will only cease to be a problem at the VG when the VG is gone.
That's a real shame - I can't imagine how it must be to work in that environment every day. Trying to provide a sterile environment for patients while also maintaining your own health must be a virtually impossible challenge.

The real issue, since there has been apparently no plan to fix the problem or replace the hospital, is that this means we are several years -perhaps decades- from a solution. Very sad situation indeed.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 9:38 PM
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Regarding the future of the VG - wasn't the plan at one point to add on to the Infirmary site at Robie and Bell (formerly occupied by QE High and now by a sort of urban farm)?

So, wouldn't a good plan be to bolster the Infirmary site to cover the peninsula and add the Bayers Lake site to cover the suburbs? It actually doesn't seem like a bad way (economics aside) to get good health care coverage for all...
That is exactly what the master plan envisions. The "community outpatient facility" was always proposed to be built on the city outskirts, to accessible to people from outside metro. The "specialized outpatient facility" is proposed for the Infirmary site. There's been no announcement yet but, given the likelihood of an election, I'd say there's a good chance we'll hear more soon. There's been much speculation the existing CBC TV building is the most likely site but that would depend on reaching agreement with the feds.

All of the moving parts that are the QE project can be found on the website.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 10:00 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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!!

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Originally Posted by ns_kid View Post
That is exactly what the master plan envisions. The "community outpatient facility" was always proposed to be built on the city outskirts, to accessible to people from outside metro. The "specialized outpatient facility" is proposed for the Infirmary site. There's been no announcement yet but, given the likelihood of an election, I'd say there's a good chance we'll hear more soon. There's been much speculation the existing CBC TV building is the most likely site but that would depend on reaching agreement with the feds.

All of the moving parts that are the QE project can be found on the website.
Ahhh... I hadn't seen that before. Thanks!!
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2017, 12:03 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
That's a real shame - I can't imagine how it must be to work in that environment every day. Trying to provide a sterile environment for patients while also maintaining your own health must be a virtually impossible challenge.

The real issue, since there has been apparently no plan to fix the problem or replace the hospital, is that this means we are several years -perhaps decades- from a solution. Very sad situation indeed.
The changes at Cobequid and expansion at Dartmouth General and then the Bayers Lake building will bring great change. John Young is chair of the Health Authority and he knows the problems, just a matter of a change of attitude and chunks of cash. McNeil hasn't been afraid to shake things up and when he quits in 2 years he'll walk away a proud man. (And I have never voted Liberal )
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2017, 11:34 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Perhaps a hospital thread should be created and those posts removed from this thread?
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2017, 6:43 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Perhaps a hospital thread should be created and those posts removed from this thread?
Or we could stop second guessing the experts
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2017, 8:10 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Or we could stop second guessing the experts
Well you know what they say about experts:

expert definition -> ex - a "has-been"; spurt - "drip under pressure".
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 11:20 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Or we could stop second guessing the experts
Experts? Like yourself?

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with discussing the government's philosophy regarding health care and its related facilities, nor to I see it as a positive step to completely accept the opinions of those in positions of authority without question.

However, I do think this exchange is in the wrong thread and has diluted the conversation about the building for which this thread was started.

Enough already. If you wish to discuss it further, then start a thread about hospitals/health care.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 6:31 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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This series of population maps is useful, especially the 1991-96 and 1996-2001 maps

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/mcfadde...nge%20maps.pdf

And this map :
http://www.halifax.ca/regionalplanni...rtationRP5.pdf from http://www.halifax.ca/regionalplanning/FinalRegPlan.php
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 7:41 PM
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This travel demand map from the Integrated Mobility Plan shows where most of the traffic is:



It doesn't really suggest to me that an outer suburban location is central in the sense of being close to where people live, where they travel, or being a place where the city's infrastructure converges. The most "central" spot in the Halifax metro area is probably somewhere in the north end of the peninsula.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 8:41 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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This travel demand map from the Integrated Mobility Plan shows where most of the traffic is:



It doesn't really suggest to me that an outer suburban location is central in the sense of being close to where people live, where they travel, or being a place where the city's infrastructure converges. The most "central" spot in the Halifax metro area is probably somewhere in the north end of the peninsula.
Or on part of the Shannon Park lands. That would be a workable spot for an outpatient facility IMO for both city and rural patients.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2017, 11:27 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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The Cobequid facility serves Bedford and Dartmouth. The maps I linked to provide better information on population. HRM had a map which showed the as-of-right development areas and the possible units. I cannot find the map online but I printed a copy a few years ago. The new facility is looking ahead to a greater population to the west of the peninsula.
Outpatients now also go to DGH, Cobequid and Kentville depending on the required treatment/examination.
Shannon is supposed to be residential to boost the centre population.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 11:00 AM
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Shannon's general area would make a fine location for such a facility or even a replacement full hospital, though. I was a passenger in a vehicle crossing the MacKay yesterday and got a good look at the cleared lands, which now look quite different. Could not ask for better access.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2017, 3:20 PM
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The last time I was in the Dickson Center, a structure built in the mid-1980s, the washrooms there had similar signs advising the water was not fit to drink.

I remain baffled by how safe drinking water cannot be provided in a hospital. Not to mention how they run food service in such a place.
There is a huge amount of safe, bottled, drinking water in the hospital.
For specific patients, the issue is water droplets in the air, running a bath, having a shower.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2017, 11:22 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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For those interested in the potential and approved residential development off peninsula view this RP+5 document : http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...3cowAgenda.php

Go to item 3 ' Presentation ' and especially pages 48 - 51 of the presentation.
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...03cow3pres.pdf

This shows 'Inventory of Suburban serviceable lands' - Attachment A page 21 : http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...31203cow3i.pdf
Attachment shows over 10,500 possible dwelling units from Herring Cove to Rockingham transmitter lands. Many of the units will be for families.
Most the critics of the site of the proposed Bayers Lake outpatient facility seem to be young single persons who are not aware of RP+5.

Last edited by Colin May; Apr 28, 2017 at 12:32 PM.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 8:20 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
For those interested in the potential and approved residential development off peninsula view this RP+5 document : http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...3cowAgenda.php

Go to item 3 ' Presentation ' and especially pages 48 - 51 of the presentation.
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...03cow3pres.pdf

This shows 'Inventory of Suburban serviceable lands' - Attachment A page 21 : http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...31203cow3i.pdf
Attachment shows over 10,500 possible dwelling units from Herring Cove to Rockingham transmitter lands. Many of the units will be for families.
Most the critics of the site of the proposed Bayers Lake outpatient facility seem to be young single persons who are not aware of RP+5.
Will the BL Outpatient facility replace or duplicate services downtown? I'm confused as to the overall scope of the Capital Health long term plan. If these services will also be available downtown for residents, it's a very different story to me.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 11:11 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Will the BL Outpatient facility replace or duplicate services downtown? I'm confused as to the overall scope of the Capital Health long term plan. If these services will also be available downtown for residents, it's a very different story to me.
I'm not sure anyone really knows yet. The problem for me is that the province apparently did solicit city staff's opinion on this, and when staff told them this was a terrible location (even when considering rural and suburban access, there are far better locations) they were ignored.

And now no one seems to be able to say exactly the scope of this, and to what degree, if any, this will replace city centre services. The provincial government is completely playing politics with this, and I have no doubt they'll do whatever they believe is in their best electorally, rather than what's best for citizens. After Mike Savage expressed doubts yesterday about the location, McNeil rejoinded today with: "He's the mayor of Halifax; I'm the premier of Nova Scotia." The provincial government is at best disinterested in What's best for Halifax. I've got no faith that they'll retain all the critical services downtown if they think they can swing a few votes by moving them to Bayer's Lake.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2017, 12:44 AM
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I'm not sure anyone really knows yet. The problem for me is that the province apparently did solicit city staff's opinion on this, and when staff told them this was a terrible location (even when considering rural and suburban access, there are far better locations) they were ignored.
Rural access anyway won't be solved by moving the hospital around the city. Whether you drive 3 hours or 3 hours and 10 minutes doesn't matter much, and there is no single point in NS that is accessible to everyone.

And as far as the suburbs go, if you put it in a suburb, it will be accessible to that one but not to the others. Most of the suburbs are on the periphery of the metropolitan area.

Quote:
And now no one seems to be able to say exactly the scope of this, and to what degree, if any, this will replace city centre services. The provincial government is completely playing politics with this, and I have no doubt they'll do whatever they believe is in their best electorally, rather than what's best for citizens. After Mike Savage expressed doubts yesterday about the location, McNeil rejoinded today with: "He's the mayor of Halifax; I'm the premier of Nova Scotia."
Nothing new under the sun I guess. For as long as I can remember there's been an "us vs. them" attitude and jealousy in rural NS when it comes to the city. It is much worse there than any other province I have lived in. In BC, there is more investment in the largest city and there is less jealousy.

It is all rather stupid because the economic trends that favour the city and make it hard for rural areas to grow go far beyond NS, and are not something the NS provincial government can change much by moving investment around within the province.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2017, 1:59 AM
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We don't know what transpired between HRM and the province, best we ignore any short comments in the media.
We do know that the days of the VG are numbered, not sure what the plans are for the Dickson.
Not too many years ago almost everything outpatient took place in Halifax. As I wrote before, my experience in the first few months of this year took place at Cobequid, DGH and Dickson. Outpatient services often require a person to show up at 7.a.m.
I cannot get transit to Cobequid for that time- do we seriously expect elderly people to jump on a bus - and Bjerke talking about cycling to a facility shows how crazy and myopic he is. Does he think staff cycle to and from our medical facilities ? ( My wife worked shifts at a facility and the night shift started at 11.30 p.m. forget transit - a car was essential ) Outpatients use a cab, or a spouse or friend to drive to a facility. Go to any facility and the great majority of people are over the age of 50.
Most of the suburbs are not on the periphery, they are off peninsula and they will get larger each year.
I posted this link :
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...31203cow3i.pdf Attachment 'A' is entitled ‘Active and/or planning applications 2013’, and look at the area from Herring Cove to the west of the peninsula and north to the Bedford boundary.
I count a possible 11,250 dwelling units and that does not include 10,610 units in Bedford West and the 2,409 units in Bedford South.
And then there is further development in the Hammonds Plains corridor.
Not to mention that the Centre Plan is hoping to attract just 25% of future population growth in HRM.
What is best for Halifax may not be the best for residents in HRM. Looking ahead the growth will take place off peninsula.
If Bjerke and/or Ritchie tried to push a site near the Lacewood terminal why don't they come out and say so ? Tell the public what site the staff proposed and stop hiding the information - silence and cryptic comments do not serve the public interest.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2017, 4:26 AM
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Regardless of demographics, whether it's in the city or out of the city, Bayers Lake is a terrible choice.

For those who are pedestrian oriented, there are only 2 bus routes that service it right now, and there are very few, if any concessions for pedestrians (no sidewalks off the main section of Chain Lake Dr, very few crosswalks etc). I work in an office near the BL Access Nova Scotia, and use the bus to get there. Every day there are hordes of people that have to dodge traffic to get across the street to get to and from this super inconvenient location. Again, no sidewalks, no crosswalks. If they're going to build it there, then they should be responsible for all the infrastructure required to make it accessible to people who don't have access to cars, either. Dedicated buses, sidewalks, etc.

Also, it's embarrassingly badly littered out there. It looks awful. Very few public garbage receptacles, two recycling facilities, a general lack of care... I mean, it's pretty bad everywhere, unfortunately, but especially in BL.
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