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  #221  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 1:06 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Did it?

Phoenix would be a good case study. They refused to build freeway to avoid becoming a new Los Angeles. What happened? The arterials became so congested that they were forced to build freeways 20-30 years late.
Maybe Phoenix should've invested in mass transit.
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  #222  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 3:20 PM
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Maybe Phoenix should've invested in mass transit.
less people living in Arizona is good because theres not enough water there.
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  #223  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 3:30 PM
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Working from home needs to become more of a standard practice. Will hopefully aid in reducing the evermore carnage that is volume on our roads.
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  #224  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 3:36 PM
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Your opinion is subjective of course. However, Americans don't desire to live a European lifestyle, one that inhabits ancient cities and regions, where the peasants were forced to live a certain way by the state. Americans have constantly proven so, by choosing to live where they do and have continued to live this way, despite what you may prefer.

It is what it is. We have the space and the means to live this way. Europeans do not.
To add to this, I think folks forget why a lot of people go to the burbs. And let's think this too... why folks that at one point who lived in cities made the decision to move out of them. All comes down to prices, lifestyle/education (families), factors like crime, and just the plain concept that some people grow tired of the noise, the conjestion, and want more room.

Now I know some will say, well.... you can get more room, and you can get very good schools and still be in a city... of course... but... BUT you have to pay an arm and a leg typically to get that in some of our cities. And that price is something some people aren't willing to pay OR... OR.... can't afford it.

And so what do they do? They move to the burbs... because of price... because schools tend to be better there, and while boring... it does at least provide a good breeding ground for a family. Oh... and less crime.

If you want to get all of the benefits of the suburbs from a family raising standpoint, get ready to pay in a city.
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  #225  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 3:59 PM
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cheep and boring isnt a problem these days with netflix and everything. expencive and a lot to do is only in some cities. tokyo, london, berlin ect.
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  #226  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 5:49 PM
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^^^^^

Boring in the sense of the built environment. But a lot of people quite frankly don't care about that. Things like street life, architecture, even culture or diversity... a lot of folks don't care about that. And there are people that just do not like people... those do exist. They would rather be in the burbs to avoid the masses in droves. There are some folks that like a quiet areas as well, and there are just those folks that like having a yard.

Now there are plenty of folks that DO care about some of the things I stated, but there's an audience that doesn't quite frankly.

We obviously like cities, hence why we are SSP members and follow developments, but we have to think outside of our niche community and look at the bigger picture, which is reality. These are truths I'm preaching btw. Its just reality.

Now if they want some excitement, in an area that has some of that stuff, they drive there or when applicable, bus or rail.

If people really hated the suburbs, we wouldn't see growth in the burbs or their continued expansion in some cases. There is a demand to sustain these communities. Somewhat why inner-ring suburbs are doing quite well, and adding residents. Just check out the DC suburbs for example or certain counties. Adding residents. Likewise with suburbs in Salt Lake City or Minneapolis or Chicago or even Boston.
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  #227  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 5:57 PM
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^ at the end of the day i guess who cares about everyone and just care about how you are living in your home. you cant change people, its just what humans do is they/ we want to advance.
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  #228  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 6:05 PM
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Amen to that.

Yeah I mean we would all love our cities to be better, no doubt, but the human element is hard to control. And it shouldn't be controlled, because people have the freedom to do what they want and when it comes to where he/she lives or how they raise their family, so long as it doesn't result in injury, more power to them. If they are happy living in a trailer in the woods, more power to them. Happiness is very important in life. None of this poop will mean anything once we are in the soil, so enjoy.

Our cities are making strides though. That's a positive. Life is complex. We have to work with whats present, and if a chance for improvement comes along, hopefully see that it goes through.

If the world was perfect, we wouldn't be having such discussion. In fact, if the world was perfect, it could paradoxically be boring. Hell, a lot of jobs depend on it not being perfect when you think deep about it.
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  #229  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 6:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
^^^^^

Boring in the sense of the built environment. But a lot of people quite frankly don't care about that. Things like street life, architecture, even culture or diversity... a lot of folks don't care about that. And there are people that just do not like people... those do exist. They would rather be in the burbs to avoid the masses in droves. There are some folks that like a quiet areas as well, and there are just those folks that like having a yard.

Now there are plenty of folks that DO care about some of the things I stated, but there's an audience that doesn't quite frankly.

We obviously like cities, hence why we are SSP members and follow developments, but we have to think outside of our niche community and look at the bigger picture, which is reality. These are truths I'm preaching btw. Its just reality.

Now if they want some excitement, in an area that has some of that stuff, they drive there or when applicable, bus or rail.

If people really hated the suburbs, we wouldn't see growth in the burbs or their continued expansion in some cases. There is a demand to sustain these communities. Somewhat why inner-ring suburbs are doing quite well, and adding residents. Just check out the DC suburbs for example or certain counties. Adding residents. Likewise with suburbs in Salt Lake City or Minneapolis or Chicago or even Boston.
It's a *hugely* popular notion on SSP that most suburbanites are prisoners of where they live and would rather be in the inner city if they could afford it, but I don't believe it has any basis in fact. I live in a suburban area and I've never actually had any of my neighbours say they wish they could live in the inner city. If I broaden my scope the only people I ever hear wishing for life in the inner city are teenagers and people in their early 20s. This seems to evaporate for the most part by the time people are in their late 20s. In that, those who prefer the inner city (who do exist of course in appreciable numbers) are already there and have organized their lives in order to be able to live there. But the people who are in the burbs at that point are also mostly there because that's their choice.

Older people who move to the inner city also exist of course in decent numbers but when they do it's because they're ready for something different or in another phase of their lives (post-divorce, empty nest, retirement, mobility issues, etc.), and not because they've achieved their dream of *finally* being able to afford to move into a more central part of town.
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  #230  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
To add to this, I think folks forget why a lot of people go to the burbs. And let's think this too... why folks that at one point who lived in cities made the decision to move out of them. All comes down to prices, lifestyle/education (families), factors like crime, and just the plain concept that some people grow tired of the noise, the conjestion, and want more room.
Exactly. What you're describing is America, a place where you can make the best possible decision given your own wants and needs from your own personal situation. The day that cities can offer a better option than their suburban counterparts is the day we see incredible astronomical growth in our cities. Until then, people will vote with their feet with their pocketbook in mind.

What's great about our system is that consumers make the best decision for themselves and the government doesn't dictate that decision, unlike what was the case in Europe for centuries.
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  #231  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Exactly. What you're describing is America, a place where you can make the best possible decision given your own wants and needs from your own personal situation. The day that cities can offer a better option than their suburban counterparts is the day we see incredible astronomical growth in our cities. Until then, people will vote with their feet with their pocketbook in mind.

What's great about our system is that consumers make the best decision for themselves and the government doesn't dictate that decision, unlike what was the case in Europe for centuries.
how do you vote with your money when you build a house on a property or move into a apartment? its not like with video games you can chose not to buy games from big companies and only buy games from indie developers. people are lucky if they get there own place sometimes.
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  #232  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 11:45 PM
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how do you vote with your money when you build a house on a property or move into a apartment? its not like with video games you can chose not to buy games from big companies and only buy games from indie developers. people are lucky if they get there own place sometimes.
Dubu, you should devise a train system on a computer program that you claim you have no experience with and then present it to the city of Phoenix!
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  #233  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 11:50 PM
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Dubu, you should devise a train system on a computer program that you claim you have no experience with and then present it to the city of Phoenix!
you mean the shroom city? they would probably think im insane.
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  #234  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 11:52 PM
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you mean the shroom city? they would probably think im insane.
Yep. Create your shroom city on a program you have already claimed of having no knowledge of.

--Nobody is falling for your schtick. Lol.
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  #235  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 11:56 PM
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Yep. Create your shroom city on a program you have already claimed of having no knowledge of.

--Nobody is falling for your schtick. Lol.
its not a gimmick if you don't have to use a car and pollute and have a central down town.
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  #236  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Amen to that.

Yeah I mean we would all love our cities to be better, no doubt, but the human element is hard to control. And it shouldn't be controlled, because people have the freedom to do what they want and when it comes to where he/she lives or how they raise their family, so long as it doesn't result in injury, more power to them. If they are happy living in a trailer in the woods, more power to them. Happiness is very important in life. None of this poop will mean anything once we are in the soil, so enjoy.

Our cities are making strides though. That's a positive. Life is complex. We have to work with whats present, and if a chance for improvement comes along, hopefully see that it goes through.

If the world was perfect, we wouldn't be having such discussion. In fact, if the world was perfect, it could paradoxically be boring. Hell, a lot of jobs depend on it not being perfect when you think deep about it.
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  #237  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2019, 12:03 AM
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It's a *hugely* popular notion on SSP that most suburbanites are prisoners of where they live and would rather be in the inner city if they could afford it, but I don't believe it has any basis in fact. I live in a suburban area and I've never actually had any of my neighbours say they wish they could live in the inner city. If I broaden my scope the only people I ever hear wishing for life in the inner city are teenagers and people in their early 20s. This seems to evaporate for the most part by the time people are in their late 20s. In that, those who prefer the inner city (who do exist of course in appreciable numbers) are already there and have organized their lives in order to be able to live there. But the people who are in the burbs at that point are also mostly there because that's their choice.

Older people who move to the inner city also exist of course in decent numbers but when they do it's because they're ready for something different or in another phase of their lives (post-divorce, empty nest, retirement, mobility issues, etc.), and not because they've achieved their dream of *finally* being able to afford to move into a more central part of town.
People are biased, of course. I don't think the majority of suburban people live there but wish they could live in the city. But I don't think the number of people who do fit in that category is small. Even if there are just 10 million people that want that...that could change the vibe of our cities with that influx of people.

We need to realize(like many have pointed out) some people just like the burbs. They might like it because its artificially cheap or they are brainwashed...or they just like it. But they like it. We need to make sure our cities are attractive enough to lure and keep those who live there but would rather not.

Everyone knows how to do this; lower crime rates, better schools, and cheaper real estate.
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  #238  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2019, 12:32 AM
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i thought sun belt was saying you can actually change they way we live with money. i guess i on the autisom spectrom and totaly missed read that.
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  #239  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2019, 12:39 AM
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No idea of traffic counts, but I'd have to assume that the busiest highway in Shanghai is the S20 Outer Ring Expressway, simply because it's the widest highway in the city (4 lanes in each direction) with the highest speed limit (100km/h) and it's constantly jammed or super congested in both directions. Other than that, probably the busiest other expressways are probably the Middle Ring Road, the North-South Elevated Road, and the Yan'an Elevated Road, but they're only 3 lanes in each direction for most of their lengths and have speed limits of only 80km/h, so the traffic counts are probably quite a bit lower.

Anyway, no road in Shanghai comes even close to the traffic counts on the city's metro lines, the busiest of which are up to 1.5 million passengers per day, and almost all are over 500,000 per day, for total daily ridership of over 10 million.
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  #240  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2019, 8:52 PM
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I followed up with Caltrans regarding the freeway count on the 60 in Los Angeles County. The figures were, as many suspected, incorrect:

Quote:
Thank you for your email dated July 30, 2019....regarding traffic volume information on the Pomona Freeway (LA-60).

Census info published in 2016 and subsequent years contain incorrect count information from PM 17.972 to 23.56. Caltrans will correct the count information in our future traffic volume publication.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
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