HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     
Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2019, 2:35 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 17,638
Major NYC landlord keeping rent regulated apartments vacant

Looks like the newly rent regulation law in NYC is so heinous that at least one major NYC landlord decided that it’s better off just keeping some of those apartments vacant.

Way to create more affordable housing, fellas! Just keep passing more and more punitive laws that box business in so tightly that they have no option but to say “screw this” and hence create the opposite outcome from what the laws were intended for.

Quote:
While landlords with rent-stabilized apartments may have taken vacant units off the market due to the new limits on offsetting renovation costs, there are other potential factors. The industry, Belkin said, may also be hoping that unintended effects of the new rent laws, like warehoused rent-regulated apartments, will attract the attention of lawmakers and compel them to “make remedy” in subsequent legislative sessions.
https://therealdeal.com/2019/08/27/b...uyvesant-town/
__________________
Eat less
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2019, 3:48 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,863
Asshole pols making life harder for people. The best way to keep things affordable is to make it easier and more predictable to build through more as-of-right zoning. Real estate profits are sky high because it's such a risky venture.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 7:39 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 578
What a curious way to go about rent control.

One could argue for or against rent control in general.

But the NYS/NYC model is really peculiar.

I'm used to the system in Toronto which protects an existing tenant against increases greater than inflation, except by permission of a quasi-judicial tribunal due to major capital expenses (still capped at roughly inflation, plus up to 3% extra per year, for 3 years, until the improvement is paid off).

The notion of controlling rent on a vacant unit is itself a bit more problematic; but I could see the virtue in it in certain respects.

But if one is to do that, you'd think a simple requirement that the unit be subject to the same rent increase as any other unit would be the way to go.

The convoluted rules in New York are rather cumbersome.

I tend to think if you've got units that are not merely below current market, but well below, in a rent-control scenario, you'd think it might serve the interest of the state to simply purchase the buildings off the landlords and absorb them into the government-owned housing portfolio.

Taking a low-yield property that requires capital investment off their hands should work for many landlords too. (purchased)

Then, the State could vacancy de-control its own units, and use the profit to cover subsidies for those who need them..........
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 1:41 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 2,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineerding View Post
A jar of mayo could make a profit owning units in nyc, so this smells like tax loopholing because they aren’t getting fat enough profits.
If the "tax loophole" has a greater return than renting out the apartment...what's the deal?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 1:57 AM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Colebrook, NH (as well as QC & FL)
Posts: 25,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineerding View Post
A jar of mayo could make a profit owning units in nyc, so this smells like tax loopholing because they aren’t getting fat enough profits.
It's the other way around last I checked - cap rates are so low that it's very difficult to make profits. A landlord's way to profit is that someone down the road will hopefully accept an even lower cap rate than them, i.e. they can sell their real estate at a profit.

In such low-cap-rates markets (Vancouver, Paris) it's perfectly normal and logical that you'll often see investors not even bothering to deal with tenants given that rents are peanuts in comparison to prices - the goal is to own what are essentially brick-and-mortar bitcoins and hope they'll continue to appreciate every year at a nice rate.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 2:33 AM
floor23 floor23 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 58
I'm not too familiar with tenancy laws in NYC, but from what I've read and heard once you get a tenant in a rent control/stabilized unit its very difficult if not impossible to vacate the unit down the road.

If I was in the landlords position I'd be doing the same thing as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 12:17 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 17,638
Stories like this are disheartening and reaffirms to me just how mean spirited NYC's rent stabilization law (and the people who back it) is:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyd...tputType%3Damp
__________________
Eat less
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2019, 9:11 PM
Gantz Gantz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by floor23 View Post
I'm not too familiar with tenancy laws in NYC, but from what I've read and heard once you get a tenant in a rent control/stabilized unit its very difficult if not impossible to vacate the unit down the road.

If I was in the landlords position I'd be doing the same thing as well.
Not only that, but those tenants children/spouses can inherit the lease rights, so once the tenant is in, they could potentially be there literally indefinitely or until the landlord buys them out of their lease, which could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for the landlord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
I tend to think if you've got units that are not merely below current market, but well below, in a rent-control scenario, you'd think it might serve the interest of the state to simply purchase the buildings off the landlords and absorb them into the government-owned housing portfolio.

Taking a low-yield property that requires capital investment off their hands should work for many landlords too. (purchased)

Then, the State could vacancy de-control its own units, and use the profit to cover subsidies for those who need them..........
What you describe is called racketeering.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 7:58 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 17,638
Bernie calling for nationwide rent control
__________________
Eat less
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 8:37 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Looks like the newly rent regulation law in NYC is so heinous that at least one major NYC landlord decided that it’s better off just keeping some of those apartments vacant.

Way to create more affordable housing, fellas! Just keep passing more and more punitive laws that box business in so tightly that they have no option but to say “screw this” and hence create the opposite outcome from what the laws were intended for.



https://therealdeal.com/2019/08/27/b...uyvesant-town/
What??!?!? Poorly thought out and historically ineffective rent control rules were poorly thought out and ineffective!

Who could have seen this coming!?!?!?!?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 8:39 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Bernie calling for nationwide rent control
These kinds of things dont worry me because despite Modern America's obsession with presidents that is just the kind of law that would never be able to happen the very system is designed to prevent it, if our past several executives haven't proven it so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:10 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 2,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
These kinds of things dont worry me because despite Modern America's obsession with presidents that is just the kind of law that would never be able to happen the very system is designed to prevent it, if our past several executives haven't proven it so.
Exactly. In any case, I've decided to do a little project this weekend. I am going to go through Bernies website and see how much all his plans add up to. His GND and this housing plan alone add up to something like 19 trillion dollars. This is not including the 30 or other large plans he has spending over 1 billion dollars.

Not gonna happen.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 3:30 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
N=R∗×fp×ne×fl×fi×f c× L
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 28,405
^^^^

Honestly, if you want to "visually" capture the moment, just get an empty trash can, throw like 50% of your money in there, place some lighter fluid, and watch the fire. Will save you some number crunching, and frustration. Or you can just turn the trash can into a little BBQ, with the smell of money adding flavor to the meat.

I think Sanders means well, but there's a fine line between what works, and what doesn't. In fantasy land, it would be fantastic, but unfortunately there are a lot of elements to tackle, and to make things work, sometimes one has to slowly break down the fabric that is the political and economical puzzle along with every other variable... diagnose it, and make it work.

In other words, the ideas sound great in theory, but to work and not place us in the financial gutter, they need some reworking.

But as ideas... they are great for the people, its just implementing it in a manner that works thats the hard part. The really hard part!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 4:02 AM
uaarkson's Avatar
uaarkson uaarkson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Back in Flint
Posts: 1,934
Whatever they do for rent control, transportation and zoning in Tokyo, just do that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 5:09 AM
subterranean's Avatar
subterranean subterranean is online now
homesick alien
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,719
#latestagecapitalism
__________________
SW Portland | NW Portland
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 4:29 PM
badrunner badrunner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
Whatever they do for rent control, transportation and zoning in Tokyo, just do that.
Their "rent control" is a shrinking population and disposable housing...
Reply With Quote
     
     
End

Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:32 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.