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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 2:34 AM
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Why are ethnic, religious minorities in "liberal" cities often more conservative?

... relative to non-minorities, that is.

For example, in cities like San Francisco, NYC, racial minorities (eg. socially conservative and family-oriented Latinos, Blacks, Asians etc.) can be more conservative (sometimes fiscally too, for instance not so big on AOC or Bernie-style socialism) than the white "liberals". Same goes with religious minorities -- in cities, groups like Hasidic Jews, Latino Catholics, Muslim immigrants are the more socially conservative religious ones than the more mainline Protestants or secular people that are "not a minority". So, the liberal cities' "religious right", if you even want to call it that, is ironically religiously diverse.

In places ranging from San Francisco, NYC, Toronto and elsewhere, you often have the mix of super-left non-minorities who are farther left on social/economic issues than their minority counterparts.

Is this a mobility or sorting thing?

Is it because minority groups themselves have less mobility and stay within the cities, but non-minorities who are conservative leave and sort themselves out into the suburbs or small towns? Socially conservative non-minorities (eg. white conservative Christians who have had families in America for many generations) can easily leave expensive, liberal cities because they feel more at home elsewhere like suburbs, rural areas, small towns, or other states, whereas socially or religiously conservative minorities (eg. Hasidic Jews, religious immigrants, and churchgoing black families who moved to now-liberal cities generations ago during the Great Migration) may not feel as "at home" outside the city, as minorities, and so they stay adding to the city's demographic make-up, alongside their extended family groups?

Is it an assimilation thing? Many kids of people who live in liberal cities assimilate to the liberal norms based on the public school system and the social culture around them (very tolerant to LGBTQ, very environmentalist etc.) but the children of certain more socially conservative minorities often have a home culture that discourages assimilating to this kind of culture? But even so, the younger generation often still does (e.g. the socially conservative immigrant and his/her rebellious daughter/son is a common trope).
So, when the millenial/gen Z and later (perhaps their own kids) generations of racial and religious minorities grow up, they will eventually be more similar to secular "white" liberal culture, even if their parents are Baptist/Catholic/Conservative Jewish/Muslim etc.?
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 2:42 AM
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Those religions are themselves more conservative: Episcopalianism and Unitarianism are on the left, and are mainly Whites. Catholicism and Baptism are more to the right, and have more Latinos and Blacks, repsectively.
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 11:10 AM
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NYC minorities (all of them- Asian, Hispanic and Latino) generally vote for more liberal politicians than NYC non-minorities. Bill DeBlasio is mayor largely because he has massive appeal in the black Carribean community.

Super Left non-minorities congregate in cities (and college towns), of course, but they aren't a dominant demographic. DeBlasio is least popular in white, wealthy core neighborhoods and a few fringe neighborhoods.
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Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 2:36 PM
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This sort of thread doesn't work without any kind of hard data to back up assumptions, no matter how obvious they may seem
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
This sort of thread doesn't work without any kind of hard data to back up assumptions, no matter how obvious they may seem
Precisely. I was gonna say, is this just the OP's own subjective stereotype from where he lives?

For example, in southern California, a number of Catholic parishes have declared themselves "sanctuaries" for undocumented immigrants. I've marched with many Latinos in a number of protests that advocated for the undocumented, and for labor/workers' rights. Would you paint these Catholics and Latinos as being conservative?
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:01 PM
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Because ideologues are not natural...end of discussion.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:13 PM
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Because ideologues are not natural...end of discussion.
Exactly.

Its all a fabrication.

But it is fascinating when you think about this.... that we are all an intricate set of atoms and molecules arranged in a manner that is perfect, that allows us to have discussions like this. Atoms conversing with one another.

Kinda like the physicist using an electron microscope peering into the basic unit of a chemical element, the atom. A gigantic set of atoms peering into what makes it fundamentally to the core.

But any who, before I get too deep into the foundation of what we are, just know this... stereotypes, politics, races, and all of the bs issues that stem from it were caused by us. A giant feed-loop of progress and defeatism, all self-induced. Think of the recycling symbol.... thats what the stuff that we have fabricated results in, and the merry-go-round continues, 24/7...365 (plus leap year).
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:27 PM
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We are complex beings. Living on the edges of either spectrum is unsustainable, so be grateful for different perspectives that are born from life experiences. Progress comes from simply listening to each other's stories. I know, boring right?
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:29 PM
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In Toronto and Vancouver, East Asians now vote to the right of the white population, but South Asian and Black voters are generally left of center. Interestingly Asian Americans used to be more Republican than white Americans, but that dramatically changed in the 1990s.

In the US, there are some limited examples - minorities voting for Prop 8 in Califorinia in higher numbers than whites for example - but it doesn't impact partisan politics much. Partisan loyalties are stronger and race is much more of a factor in voting.
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
We are complex beings. Living on the edges of either spectrum is unsustainable, so be grateful for different perspectives that are born from life experiences. Progress comes from simply listening to each other's stories. I know, boring right?
Nah not boring, I'm on the save wavelength as you are on this concept.

Issues are what make life interesting. In fact... a lot of jobs depend on issues... so issues put people to work to fix issues that are caused by issues!
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Issues are what make life interesting. In fact... a lot of jobs depend on issues... so issues put people to work to fix issues that are caused by issues!
That wouldn't be an issue at all if...ok I'll put the acid down.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 8:49 PM
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5ht2a activation provides a lot of answers to questions.
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Precisely. I was gonna say, is this just the OP's own subjective stereotype from where he lives?

For example, in southern California, a number of Catholic parishes have declared themselves "sanctuaries" for undocumented immigrants. I've marched with many Latinos in a number of protests that advocated for the undocumented, and for labor/workers' rights. Would you paint these Catholics and Latinos as being conservative?
Couldn’t that also be explained by bias favoring people who share their culture and faith? Many Latinos might be liberal in terms of immigration, but are they still liberal when it comes to reproductive rights, LGBT, taxes, secularism, etc?

Ultimately, certain groups are going to pick political sides that favor their overall agenda. Individuals within those groups might even have their own personal agendas that shape who they will vote for.

I can speak for the black community. Many are liberal since the Democratic Party has paid attention to their issues and seek to solve many of them (ex. Police brutality, institutionalized racism, etc.) But a lot of older folks rely heavily on their religion to make sense of the world and usually are against abortion, secularism, etc, which would make them prime constituents for Republicans.


At least from what I have observed, politics aren’t as clear cut for minorities.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 12:47 AM
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My family immigrated to the US already devoutly religious(Mormon, Catholic, Methodist), and now 3 generations it's a pretty sharp divide in my observations, either youre staunchly conservative or youre staunchly liberal and there are 4 openly gay family members. I was the first to come out 25 years ago, it was hell to be around most of my relatives-whom I love dearly btw, but I refused to be silent and refused to go along with this being prayed away--I am a firm believer in prayer btw, but this is who I am. About 10 years my neice confided in me that she is a lesbian but this time, her mom(my cousin) and dad gave her their full support--then my cousin came out, then a nephew, and now in 2019, our huge family is still devoutly religious, but theyve also learned to be Christlike.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
... relative to non-minorities, that is.

For example, in cities like San Francisco, NYC, racial minorities (eg. socially conservative and family-oriented Latinos, Blacks, Asians etc.) can be more conservative (sometimes fiscally too, for instance not so big on AOC or Bernie-style socialism) than the white "liberals". Same goes with religious minorities -- in cities, groups like Hasidic Jews, Latino Catholics, Muslim immigrants are the more socially conservative religious ones than the more mainline Protestants or secular people that are "not a minority". So, the liberal cities' "religious right", if you even want to call it that, is ironically religiously diverse.
Is all that true, though? Are Latino Catholics more socially conservative than mainline Protestants or secular people? Is the difference significant? I mean, it all might be true--or it might not be true. Do you have data to back this up? You seem to be just assuming the truth of your claim.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 2:42 AM
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Is all that true, though? Are Latino Catholics more socially conservative than mainline Protestants or secular people? Is the difference significant? I mean, it all might be true--or it might not be true. Do you have data to back this up? You seem to be just assuming the truth of your claim.
I admit I don't have hard data, but I think Latino Catholics might be more socially conservative than mainline Protestants or secular people in bigger cities, not overall.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 2:44 AM
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Not direct evidence for the trend at a larger scale, but it seems like AOC and Bernie-style socialism is ironically at least at some local areas, more popular with white gentrifiers of many big cities than some of the local minorities. I'm just asking why this trend (not sure how widespread it is in some cities, or in some neighborhoods in cities but it seems to exist at least here and there) might be?

"Ocasio-Cortez’s largest margin of support came from neighborhoods in western Queens like Astoria and Sunnyside that have lower Latino populations and higher white populations. It was assumed that Crowley, who is white and Irish-American, would win white voters in the election. The younger white voters who have been gentrifying western Queens helped hand the election to Ocasio-Cortez. “It’s an example of how you can’t necessarily look at elections through the lens of race and ethnicity,” said Steven Romalewski, director of the CUNY Mapping Service for the Center for Urban Research at the CUNY Graduate Center. Data show that Ocasio-Cortez also had significant support in areas with higher Latino populations."

https://www.cityandstateny.com/artic...d-country.html
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 3:10 AM
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That's pretty slim pickings when it comes to establishing the truth of a thread-starting claim about the world we live in.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 5:41 AM
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why are religious people more conservative? i think you already answered your own question. also, first gen, ethnic minorities who are either broke, or lucky and come from wealth are, tah dah, money oriented. nothing will make you more conservative than your own wallet. notice its the kids of these first gen parents who have the luxury of trying to fight social injustice. their parents just want to pay the rent.
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Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 1:00 PM
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Not direct evidence for the trend at a larger scale, but it seems like AOC and Bernie-style socialism is ironically at least at some local areas, more popular with white gentrifiers of many big cities than some of the local minorities. I'm just asking why this trend (not sure how widespread it is in some cities, or in some neighborhoods in cities but it seems to exist at least here and there) might be?
I think the premise is untrue. The 14th Congressional district doesn't have a large population of white gentrifiers. It's half Latino, and the remainder are mostly Asian (in the Queens half) and black (in the Bronx half). It likely does have some hipster-type gentrifers and a few old school ethnic whites, especially on the Queens side, but there are no neighborhoods in the 14th that could be described as heavily gentrified. This isn't LIC, or Astoria, or the more desirable parts of Sunnyside, which are in the 12th and 6th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
[I]"Ocasio-Cortez’s largest margin of support came from neighborhoods in western Queens like Astoria and Sunnyside that have [B]lower Latino populations and higher white populations.
This statement is simply false. Astoria and Sunnyside aren't in the 14th, except maybe a few fringe blocks. The U.S. Rep for Astoria/Sunnyside is very much a mainstream, long-term Dem (Carolyn Maloney). And despite her Irish name, don't assume she's from the (still heavily Irish) Queens machine. She's an Upper East Side blueblood.

In AOC's district, white voters, whether gentrifers or old-school ethnics, are essentially a non-factor, due to low numbers.

Also, it should be pointed out that AOC barely won, with absurdly tiny turnout. If a "normal" number of voters showed up for the Dem primary, you wouldn't have ever heard of her. Her election was basically a crazy accident, kinda like Dotard.
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