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  #221  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2013, 4:01 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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A few data comparing the overseas communities in Paris and London. Number of immigrants and overseas people in the Paris metro area (the Paris Region here), and number of foreign born people in the London metro area (London LUZ, which is Greater London + 42 districts around it).

London figures are from the 2011 census (March 2011). For Paris, I have used the Jan. 2010 census as the base, and applied the 2009 growth rate to get the figures as of March 2011, for a better comparison with London.

Note that the London figures are "foreign-born", i.e. they include children of British people born abroad (for example children of British soldiers born in Germany, British people from Zimbabwe and South Africa, children of British expats born abroad like in Hong Kong), whereas French figures include only the immigrants, so the British figures here are always statistically swollen compared to the French figures (for example children of British expats born in France and now living in London are included in the 77,209 figure below, whereas children of French expats born in the UK and now living in Paris are not included in the 19,649 figure).

People from each other's country:
- London metro area: 77,209 people born in France live there
- Paris metro area: 19,649 British immigrants and expats live there

People from Italy:
- London metro area: 75,320 people born in Italy live there
- Paris metro area: 54,640 Italian immigrants live there (for an example of the statistical bias that I've indicated, ca. 4,000 non-immigrant people born in Italy live in the Paris Region, but they are not included here)

People from Portugal:
- London metro area: 48,175
- Paris metro area: 240,765

People from Spain:
- London metro area: 43,150
- Paris metro area: 45,549

People from Poland:
- London metro area: 201,900
- Paris metro area: 40,078

People from Romania:
- London metro area: 51,220
- Paris metro area: 35,941

People from Turkey:
- London metro area: 65,092
- Paris metro area: 69,756

People from North Africa (incl. Egypt):
- London metro area: 60,386
- Paris metro area: 633,571

People from sub-Saharan Africa:
- London metro area: 678,070
- Paris metro area: 438,418

People from sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, and Réunion):
- London metro area: 553,639
- Paris metro area: 406,952 (the ca. 45,000 French people born in sub-Saharan Africa, like Ségolène Royal and all the children of colonial administrators and settlers, are NOT included here, as explained in the introduction, whereas this category of people is included in the British figure, White settlers from Kenya for example)

People from mainland China:
- London metro area: 48,093
- Paris metro area: 62,128

People from Hong Kong:
- London metro area: 36,379
- Paris metro area: a few hundred

People from South East Asia (excluding the Philippines):
- London metro area: 88,366
- Paris metro area: 115,421

People from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka:
- London metro area: 676,313
- Paris metro area: 75,284

People from the USA:
- London metro area: 80,582 (this figure includes British people born in the USA, as explained in the introduction)
- Paris metro area: 18,252 (this figure does NOT include French people born in the USA)

People from the Caribbean:
- London metro area: 155,914
- Paris metro area: 193,226

People from continental Latin America (including the Guianas and Belize):
- London metro area: 107,531
- Paris metro area: 68,010

People from Oceania:
- London metro area: 101,997
- Paris metro area: 7,574
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  #222  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2013, 6:03 PM
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I'm adding the Madrid metro area (provinces of Madrid, Toledo, and Guadalajara) and the Barcelona metro area (province of Barcelona). Figures from the 2011 Spanish census.

Note that the Madrid and Barcelona figures refer to foreign-born people, like the London figures. Only the Paris figures refer strictly to immigrants (and overseas people), and therefore exclude French people born abroad as explained in the previous post.

People from each other's country:
- London metro area: 77,209 people born in France and 43,150 people born in Spain live there
- Paris metro area: 19,649 British immigrants and 45,549 Spanish immigrants live there
- Madrid metro area: 27,620 people born in France and 12,240 people born in the UK live there
- Barcelona metro area: 30,004 people born in France and 11,571 people born in the UK live there

People from Italy:
- London metro area: 75,320 people born in Italy live there
- Paris metro area: 54,640 Italian immigrants live there (for an example of the statistical bias that I've indicated, ca. 4,000 non-immigrant people born in Italy live in the Paris Region, but they are not included here)
- Madrid metro area: 12,263 people born in Italy live there
- Barcelona metro area: 19,859 people born in Italy live there

People from Portugal:
- London metro area: 48,175
- Paris metro area: 240,765
- Madrid metro area: 16,056
- Barcelona metro area: 8,263

People from Poland:
- London metro area: 201,900
- Paris metro area: 40,078
- Madrid metro area: 22,636
- Barcelona metro area: 7,399

People from Romania:
- London metro area: 51,220
- Paris metro area: 35,941
- Madrid metro area: 225,247
- Barcelona metro area: 33,075

People from Turkey:
- London metro area: 65,092
- Paris metro area: 69,756
- Madrid metro area: 807
- Barcelona metro area: 980

People from North Africa (incl. Egypt):
- London metro area: 60,386
- Paris metro area: 633,571
- Madrid metro area: 112,687
- Barcelona metro area: 136,900

People from sub-Saharan Africa:
- London metro area: 678,070
- Paris metro area: 438,418
- Madrid metro area: 37,227
- Barcelona metro area: 36,916

People from sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, and Réunion):
- London metro area: 553,639
- Paris metro area: 406,952 (the ca. 45,000 French people born in sub-Saharan Africa, like Ségolène Royal and all the children of colonial administrators and settlers, are NOT included here, as explained in the introduction, whereas this category of people is included in the British figure, White settlers from Kenya for example)
- Madrid metro area: 36,751
- Barcelona metro area: 36,516

People from mainland China:
- London metro area: 48,093
- Paris metro area: 62,128
- Madrid metro area: 43,301
- Barcelona metro area: 37,071

People from Hong Kong:
- London metro area: 36,379
- Paris metro area: a few hundred
- Madrid metro area: a few hundred
- Barcelona metro area: a few hundred

People from South East Asia (excluding the Philippines):
- London metro area: 88,366
- Paris metro area: 115,421
- Madrid metro area: 1,209
- Barcelona metro area: 892

People from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka:
- London metro area: 676,313
- Paris metro area: 75,284
- Madrid metro area: 11,244
- Barcelona metro area: 51,350

People from the USA:
- London metro area: 80,582 (this figure includes British people born in the USA, as explained in the introduction)
- Paris metro area: 18,252 (this figure does NOT include French people born in the USA)
- Madrid metro area: 11,572
- Barcelona metro area: 6,919

People from the Caribbean (including Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic):
- London metro area: 155,914
- Paris metro area: 193,226
- Madrid metro area: 82,835
- Barcelona metro area: 41,162

People from continental Latin America (including the Guianas and Belize):
- London metro area: 107,531
- Paris metro area: 68,010
- Madrid metro area: 563,648
- Barcelona metro area: 375,781

People from Oceania:
- London metro area: 101,997
- Paris metro area: 7,574
- Madrid metro area: 1,566
- Barcelona metro area: 985
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  #223  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2013, 6:38 PM
hughesnick312 hughesnick312 is offline
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It's funny how most of these figures match the old empires of UK, France and Spain, obviously the British empire was much bigger thoe
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  #224  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2013, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Geez, are there any Romanians left in Romania?

I go to Italy, and it seems every other person is Romanian. Austria seems not that different.

Even in the U.S., there seems to be many Romanian migrants.
You can't blame them for wanting a better life, wouldn't we all do the same
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  #225  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2013, 8:08 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Originally Posted by hughesnick312 View Post
It's funny how most of these figures match the old empires of UK, France and Spain
There are some discrepancies though. For example the former Spanish colonies in the Caribbean are more populated than the former French and British colonies in that region, yet Paris and London have far more Caribbean immigrants than either Madrid or Barcelona.

Egypt (formerly British) is as populated as the Maghreb (formerly French), yet there are 10 times more North African immigrants in Paris than in London, and according to the data I have, even the Egyptians are slightly more numerous in Paris than in London.

Portugal is also an odd case. There are 15 times more Portuguese immigrants in far-flung Paris than in nearby Madrid, despite the geographical and linguistic proximity between Madrid and Portugal.
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  #226  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2013, 12:59 AM
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Despite François Hollande and his pathetic Socialist government...
Quote:
France voted best place to emigrate

The Times of India
December 2, 2013

France has topped the poll of the best place to emigrate.


France has been voted the best place to emigrate according to a poll.

In a poll by the Overseas Guide Company (OGC), the city was followed by former favourite, Spain, then Greece, Cyprus, Italy and Portugal, while Australia and New Zealand have sunk again.

The survey suggested that people wanted to be closer to home and family, even though they are emigrating.

The OGC which bases its predictions on requests for information found that 33 percent of all the enquiries were for France, the Daily Express reported.

One major change, however, is that the euro has weakened considerably in the past two months as a result of interest rate announcements.

Richard Way, editor at OCG said that getting a mortgage in France has never been cheaper.

Way added the ski property markets in France and Switzerland have outperformed other holiday home markets in the euro zone - thanks to limited supply, a very lifestyle driven target audience and strong international appeal.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/l...w/26734929.cms
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  #227  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2013, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
There are some discrepancies though. For example the former Spanish colonies in the Caribbean are more populated than the former French and British colonies in that region, yet Paris and London have far more Caribbean immigrants than either Madrid or Barcelona.
Well the Spanish-speaking Carribean immigrants are mostly not in Europe.

Cubans, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans tend to be in the NYC area or Florida. I don't think they have a large presence anywhere in Europe.
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  #228  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2013, 12:50 AM
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^Spain and Italy more than any where else in Europe. There are well over 100,000 (each) DR & Cuba-born in Spain alone.
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  #229  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2013, 12:35 AM
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^Spain and Italy more than any where else in Europe. There are well over 100,000 (each) DR & Cuba-born in Spain alone.
Ok, but debatable whether this is a "large" presence. Spain has definitely received extensive Latin immigration in the last decade. But there are a couple million PR, DR and Cuban in the NYC and Miami areas alone.

For NYC area, 2.2 million, roughly, for Miami maybe 1.1-1.2 million. Orlando, Tampa, Philadelphia, Boston, and Chicago have sizable populations too.
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  #230  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2013, 3:30 PM
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In Spain at the 2011 census there were 116,852 Cuban-born and 146,613 Dominican-born people.

In Metropolitan France (the European part of France) at the 2010 census there were 3,787 Cuban immigrants and 1,295 Dominican immigrants. In Overseas France there were 292 Cuban immigrants and 1,617 Dominican immigrants at the same census. So in total, 4,079 Cuban immigrants and 2,912 Dominican immigrants in France.

In England and Wales at the 2011 census there were 2,355 Cuban-born and 1,303 Dominican-born people.
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  #231  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 12:33 AM
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Number of births in Germany, France, the UK, and Italy from 1957 to 2012. 2012 figures are now final figures.

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  #232  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 12:54 AM
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Italy has had less than 700,000 births per year since 1979. Germany has had less than 700,000 births per year since 2005. The UK had less than 700,000 births per year from 1975 to 1978, and again from 1999 to 2003. France had less than 700,000 births per year in peacetime only during the Great Depression of the 1930s.
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  #233  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Number of births in Germany, France, the UK, and Italy from 1957 to 2012. 2012 figures are now final figures.

This graph is interesting, it shows that britains population has been growing much faster than France for a long time, And germanies and italys popularions have been going down fast, i wonder what the reason is for that
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  #234  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2013, 6:30 PM
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And germanies and italys popularions have been going down fast, i wonder what the reason is for that
No, their birth rates have been going down fast, not their populations.

Immigration has (generally speaking) made up for the low birthrates, though this may not be enough going forward.

As to the "why" there are important cultural differences.

In Germany there is still the stereotype of "Rabenmutter" which basically means that some people stigmatize mothers who work (some believe you choose either motherhood or working world, not both, because you can't do both 100%).

Also, primary school ends much earlier in the day in Germany than in other countries, so there needs to be child care provisions.
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  #235  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2013, 12:04 AM
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As to the "why" there are important cultural differences.

In Germany there is still the stereotype of "Rabenmutter" which basically means that some people stigmatize mothers who work (some believe you choose either motherhood or working world, not both, because you can't do both 100%).

Also, primary school ends much earlier in the day in Germany than in other countries, so there needs to be child care provisions.
More german women choose to remain childfree. 22 % now (in Hamburg this is 32 %, a world record)

Der Anteil der Frauen ohne Kinder steigt. Von den Frauen, die heute 40 bis 44 Jahre alt sind, sind 22 Prozent kinderlos. Vor vier Jahren waren es noch 20 Prozent.
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  #236  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2013, 2:43 AM
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Héhéhéhéhéhé... The Germans will eventually end up speaking French, as a punishment for their ridiculous sexist behavior.
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  #237  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2013, 5:10 PM
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Héhéhéhéhéhé... The Germans will eventually end up speaking French,
More likely they will teach millions of ''francophone'' african immigrants to speak german.

Germany has jobs and needs immigrants desperately.
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  #238  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2013, 11:14 PM
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More german women choose to remain childfree. 22 % now (in Hamburg this is 32 %, a world record)

Der Anteil der Frauen ohne Kinder steigt. Von den Frauen, die heute 40 bis 44 Jahre alt sind, sind 22 Prozent kinderlos. Vor vier Jahren waren es noch 20 Prozent.
In France it's only 13.5% according to INSEE.
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  #239  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2013, 9:24 AM
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In UK , Denmark and Holland one observes a tendency of higher educated women having more children than others.
Kids are serving as status symbol.
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  #240  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2014, 11:30 AM
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The results of the 2011 French census were published yesterday (France now has a census taking place every year, in January). The population of France in Jan. 2011 was slightly lower than previously estimated, because net migration in 2010 was smaller than what the French statistical office INSEE had previously guesstimated. Net migration was only +46,908 in 2010, whereas INSEE previously guesstimated that it had been +62,000.

France thus continues to have extremely small migration figures compared to its neighbours.

Net migration in Metropolitan France (the European part of France):
- 2007: +74,659
- 2008: +66,930
- 2009: +44,222
- 2010: +46,908

For comparison, Germany had a net migration of +127,677 in 2010, the UK had +252,000, Italy had +311,658, and even economically battered Spain had +76,026.

This very low net migration figure is either due to rising emigration of young French people tired of the rigid labor market of France, or to very restrictive immigration policies (and strong anti-immigrant climate which deters would-be immigrants), or a combination of both, but it's impossible to tell exactly because France is the only large country in Europe which doesn't produce estimates of inflows and outflows of migrants and native people.

Oddly, most French people are still convinced that France is submerged by a huge waves of immigrants and receives the most immigrants in Europe (). The declining net migration is not discussed by any media, and most people are unaware of it.
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