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  #901  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 12:11 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Related's Clark-Roosevelt site ticks a lot more of the "blighted" designation boxes, including a complete absence of infrastructure. It's pretty unrealistic to expect it to develop but for the presence of a TIF.

The same is not true of land that's already served by streets and sewerage in between Lincoln Park and Bucktown.
Exactly, the 78 was actually vacant for like 40 years because of its lack of infrastructure and the exitence of infrastructure (rail line) that would have to be adjusted and built over.

Then you have Lincoln Yards where the land was in use until Sterling Bay purchased a facility that had just been vacated and demolished it. Those Finkl Buildings would have had another use. They would probably be film studios by now if SB hadn't clouted their way to DX level zoning like a mile away from anywhere that could be considered "downtown" with zero transit access. Cinespace is now going after the Washburne site in Little Village across from their new annex at 31st and Kedzie that's fully lease by Netflix. The Ryerson Cinespace and Lagunitas complex was a former old school Steel mill just like Finkl. They even relocated to a new facility on the outskirts of the city just like Finkl did. The Ryerson complex is also PMD just like Finkl. So you are telling me that some adaptive reuse of those old school clear span buildings wouldn't be possible in Lincoln Park when it had already started happening 2 years before Lincoln Yards was even a public proposal in Douglas Park?

No, Finkl was not blighted and the developer chose to raze functional, marketable buildings. The desired use of DX district with no transit is not related to whether the buildings were "blighted" or not. If it weren't then you could, in fact, just go around calling anywhere in the city that's RS-3 two flats or bungalows "blighted" because it's not yet zoned DX-7 and you want to build 30 story buildings. Better shovel out $1 billion in TIF to build a new skyline for Dunning...

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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Maybe, but the development that occurs there in the absence of TIF (and in the absence of new infrastructure) might not be what we want. .

Very NIMBY of you. That's why we need an independent planning function in city hall that actually makes good policy that incentivizes and mandates some of what "We want".
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  #902  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 1:56 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
The desired use of DX district with no transit is not related to whether the buildings were "blighted" or not. If it weren't then you could, in fact, just go around calling anywhere in the city that's RS-3 two flats or bungalows "blighted" because it's not yet zoned DX-7 and you want to build 30 story buildings. Better shovel out $1 billion in TIF to build a new skyline for Dunning...

Yes.
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  #903  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 1:57 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
That's why we need an independent planning function in city hall that actually makes good policy that incentivizes and mandates some of what "We want".

Oh yes.



TIF is not a planning incentivization tool. It's an economic development tool for areas in need.
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  #904  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 2:06 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I do that often enough. Roads are the same everywhere on average.

This is decidedly not my experience, on average. I've seen residential streets in some low income neighborhoods in parts of the south side that looked like what I would imagine street conditions to be like in war zones, or third world countries. It's much rarer that I see that in middle-to-upper income neighborhoods. I recall a few years back, driving through the southern half of Back of the Yards - so this is the largely African American section south of ~50th or so - I'd never actually seen anything like the condition of those streets in the U.S. I'm not being hyperbolic here - it was shocking, and appalling. Livid.

I strongly suspect it is not just streets. Likely other types of vital infrastructure are not, in practice/actual lived experience (not policy or on the books), funded/maintained evenly throughout the city. Nothing would please me more than to be proven wrong - that this is not in fact the case. I'm not, however, naive.
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Last edited by SamInTheLoop; Aug 28, 2019 at 5:23 PM.
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  #905  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 4:17 PM
sammyg sammyg is offline
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The question of the intent of the law to promote development in areas like Lincoln Yards or for areas truly in need, as well as what standards to apply, is exactly why Raise Your Hand and Generation All filed the lawsuit. Once we get actual caselaw governing the TIF statute, developers and planners will have concrete guidance on what qualifies and what doesn't.
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  #906  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 7:47 PM
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I suppose the Burr Ridge case gives some hope, but I wouldn't be too optimistic. I expect the court, pointing to language in Kelo, will give a lot of defererence to legislative (city council) judgment.

I don't remember if there was a court case when a cornfield in Hoffman Estates was declared blighted so they could give money to Sears, but I'm sure the early decisions regarding Illinois redevelopment statutes were pretty broadly worded.
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  #907  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2019, 8:22 PM
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  #908  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 8:03 PM
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Lawsuit dismissed; groups lacked standing to challenge the TIF deal.
The union-backed Grassroots Collaborative and Raise Your Hand education advocacy group did not have standing to challenge the city’s creation of the tax increment financing district that underpinned the subsidy sought by developer Sterling Bay, Circuit Judge Neil Cohen determined.

The two groups are advocacy organizations and couldn’t show that they were harmed by creation of the TIF district, Cohen wrote days after questioning their attorneys about the issue. The groups had argued their fight against TIF districts and Lincoln Yards in particular had diverted their time and money away from other efforts.

Cohen rejected that argument, writing that the two groups made “nothing more than a conscious choice ... as to where to direct their advocacy. This choice does not magically confer standing upon the plaintiffs to challenge the city’s decisions regarding TIF districts.”
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  #909  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2019, 1:28 PM
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^ Yes, it always seemed weird to me that education groups are the biggest naysayers here. I guess in their minds Lincoln Yards is directly picking the pockets of teachers, by diminishing the raises they haven't even earned?
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  #910  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2019, 2:12 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ Yes, it always seemed weird to me that education groups are the biggest naysayers here. I guess in their minds Lincoln Yards is directly picking the pockets of teachers, by diminishing the raises they haven't even earned?
They view our tax dollars as an ATM machine for their pickings, haven't you heard?
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  #911  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2019, 3:42 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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They view our tax dollars as an ATM machine for their pickings, haven't you heard?
Actual quotes from CTU leadership:

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“Where will the money come from? Rich people,” CTU Vice President Stacy Davis Gates said Tuesday, as she repeated the union’s call for Illinois to tax its wealthiest residents at higher rates and pointed to revenue-generating ideas that need support from Democratic Gov. J.B. Pritzker.

“We have a governor who has committed to legalizing recreational marijuana and putting a tax on it, we can take that as well,” Davis Gates said. “They are also talking about sports betting. We can take that. They’re talking about opening a new casino here in the city of Chicago. We can take that.”
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  #912  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2019, 9:37 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Lol, it would be funny...
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  #913  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 3:07 PM
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Yeah... I'm gonna be out of this city in a year at the rate it keeps letting stupid crap like this fly. Bankruptcy here we come...
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  #914  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 2:04 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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anyone know how much TIF money went into Lakeshore East over the past 30 years?
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  #915  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:18 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
anyone know how much TIF money went into Lakeshore East over the past 30 years?
Probably none.
It isn't in a TIF district.
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  #916  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 5:51 PM
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Probably none.
It isn't in a TIF district.
Definitely none
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  #917  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 6:02 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
They view our tax dollars as an ATM machine for their pickings, haven't you heard?
It's kind of weird how people in a position of leadership in a sizable organization would not realize that monies are allocated. I could understand if they have never been in a position of leadership that sees into a budget of any kind across multiple organizations or sub organization but...that's pretty sad.
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  #918  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 10:46 PM
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It's kind of weird how people in a position of leadership in a sizable organization would not realize that monies are allocated.
I'm not following you here.

The educators are upset that the increased future tax revenues from the Lincoln Yards TIF district will go to the developers/investors, rather than to the school district and city.

What monies are "allocated?"
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  #919  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 11:25 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I'm not following you here.

The educators are upset that the increased future tax revenues from the Lincoln Yards TIF district will go to the developers/investors, rather than to the school district and city.

What monies are "allocated?"
Perhaps I am mis understanding what they're talking about. Especially the one where they're saying "that can go to us" (or however they worded it) talking about the new taxes...
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  #920  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 4:07 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
Probably none.
It isn't in a TIF district.
I should have asked "how much taxpayer/city money was spent on the creation of lakeshore east?"
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