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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:53 AM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
Baltimore part of the Rust Belt? Give me a fucking break
Well the Rust Belt does effectively extend to the East Coast and Baltimore City fits the bill in several ways.
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
Omaha seems pretty successful for a small city in a forgotten part of the country. It has some pretty major companies and is surprisingly wealthy.
Statements like this demonstrate how regional most of us can be.

From the perspective of somebody living in Florida, the eastern Seaboard or SoCal Omaha might seem to be a "forgotten" part of the country but for anyone living in the greater Midwest, Colorado and Kansas Omaha and Nebraska are certainly not "forgotten"
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KB0679 View Post
Well the Rust Belt does effectively extend to the East Coast and Baltimore City fits the bill in several ways.
eh, I think the Rust belt at best can extend to Great lake cities in Upstate NY and maybe west Virginia, but once we cross the Appalachians I think its eastern Seaboard.

Rust belt comes from the Iron/steel belt which were the great lake industrial cities who began to lose their industry in the 1970's (even though thats largely a misconception some classic heavy industry disappeared but there is still plenty of manufacturing all over the "rust" belt)
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
(even though thats largely a misconception some classic heavy industry disappeared but there is still plenty of manufacturing all over the "rust" belt)
and not even all of the classic heavy industry disappeared. some of it just got heavily automated.

for example, Gary's USX steel works still makes more steel than any other place in the north america, but a mill that once employed 30,000 people back in 1970, now only employs about 5,000 due to massive amounts of automation that were introduced into the steel fabrication process.

so in many cases, stuff is still being made in the rust belt, but lots of people don't have jobs anymore.

the popular myth is that all of the jobs got off-shored to china/mexico, but that's only half the story.

a great many of the jobs didn't go anywhere, they're just being done by machines now.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
eh, I think the Rust belt at best can extend to Great lake cities in Upstate NY and maybe west Virginia, but once we cross the Appalachians I think its eastern Seaboard.

Rust belt comes from the Iron/steel belt which were the great lake industrial cities who began to lose their industry in the 1970's (even though thats largely a misconception some classic heavy industry disappeared but there is still plenty of manufacturing all over the "rust" belt)
Rust Belt are former industrial/ manufacturing cities. Not necessarily iron/ steel industry. Not sure what industry dominated Baltimore but it's in the Mid-Atlantic which is heavily Rust Belt.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:30 PM
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Rust Belt are former industrial/ manufacturing cities. Not necessarily iron/ steel industry. Not sure what industry dominated Baltimore but it's in the Mid-Atlantic which is heavily Rust Belt.
I dont mean literally steel thats what the rust belt was called before it was the rust belt even if they were making aluminum. Baltimore is at its heart an old east coast port city like Philly, NY, Boston etc.

It was never in the steel belt so I wouldn't call it part of the rust belt even if it has a bunch of abandoned factories.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post

It was never in the steel belt
balitmore absolutely used to be in the steel belt.

the former sparrows point steel mill in baltimore used to be one of the largest (if not THE largest) steel mills on the eastern seaboard.

it produced steel on-site for the adjacent ship-building yards (back when they actually built ships there).

it's been shuttered for almost a decade now, but it was definitely one of the biggies back in its heyday.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post

It was never in the steel belt so I wouldn't call it part of the rust belt even if it has a bunch of abandoned factories.
Again, rust belt cities are cities that once were a strong manufacturing base that declined when jobs moved south or overseas. Steel was merely one facet of heavy industry in that region. The fact that it has abandoned factories is kind of indicative of Baltimore's Rust Belt status. My hometown in Upstate NY is a bombed out Rust Belt mess but was never a steel town; it was known for firearms, defense, radios and textiles.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I dont mean literally steel thats what the rust belt was called before it was the rust belt even if they were making aluminum. Baltimore is at its heart an old east coast port city like Philly, NY, Boston etc.

It was never in the steel belt so I wouldn't call it part of the rust belt even if it has a bunch of abandoned factories.
I see this misconception a lot, and I blame the media. The Rust Belt does not mean Midwest. Many places on the eastern seaboard are also considered Rust Belt according to the technical definition. I think even Brooklyn may have fit the technical definition of Rust Belt until this current decade. The Bronx might still fit it.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:47 PM
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Baltimore is very often included in the "Rust Belt", as are areas of eastern PA and eastern upstate NY... Scranton, Harrisburg, Allentown, Bethlehem, Hazelton, Reading, Chester, Norristown, Schenectady, Utica, binghamton, etc... even Philadelphia itself. Yes, people may not realize, but Philly is quite rusty.

They were all negatively affected by the same factors in the same era as a result of the decline in American manufacturing.

Last edited by pj3000; Aug 27, 2019 at 7:00 PM.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 7:02 PM
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It even extends into New England. Springfield, Holyoke, Worcester, Manchester, parts of CT, RI, etc.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 7:32 PM
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I find that definition far to expansive to be useful. Basically any city with pre-war industry? In my opinion rust belt is very specifically Midwest (great lakes specifically) Industrial cities and towns. Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Erie. Mostly everything along the Ohio river etc. Hell even Scranton could probably count.

Thats not to say there wasn't industry cities and towns in the Northeast and they arent also rusty due to moving industries and changing economic conditions. I think of the rust belt as much geographically (probably even more so) than I do as a social or Economic classification.

There is pre war industry that became "rusty" all over the country even in Washington, California, and the deep south but I would never consider those places part of the rust belt, and I don't consider anything on the Atlantic coast to be rust belt.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I find that definition far to expansive to be useful. Basically any city with pre-war industry? In my opinion rust belt is very specifically Midwest (great lakes specifically) Industrial cities and towns. Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Erie. Mostly everything along the Ohio river etc. Hell even Scranton could probably count.

Thats not to say there wasn't industry cities and towns in the Northeast and they arent also rusty due to moving industries and changing economic conditions. I think of the rust belt as much geographically (probably even more so) than I do as a social or Economic classification.

There is pre war industry that became "rusty" all over the country even in Washington, California, and the deep south but I would never consider those places part of the rust belt, and I don't consider anything on the Atlantic coast to be rust belt.
Not sure what your opinion has to do with it, but the term was created to refer to industrial hubs on the eastern seaboard and upper Midwest.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 7:39 PM
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not that wikipedia is the final arbiter of anything, but most people could probably stand to give this link a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 7:42 PM
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Yeah I dont like that definition and disagree with it.

Its not like general "belt" designations are scientific classifications. They are loose at best. This is the same thing you see with generations where every demographer, pollster and social scientist has their own "official" ranges for generations, and even wholly unique generations made up out of their own ass.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Yeah I dont like that definition and disagree with it.

Its not like general "belt" designations are scientific classifications. They are loose at best. This is the same thing you see with generations where every demographer, pollster and social scientist has their own "official" ranges for generations, and even wholly unique generations made up out of their own ass.
What does this even mean? You are arguing that Baltimore can't be Rust Belt because of your own criteria. Your own criteria has nothing to do with the actual definition of the term. Maybe you should create a new term.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I find that definition far to expansive to be useful. Basically any city with pre-war industry? In my opinion rust belt is very specifically Midwest (great lakes specifically) Industrial cities and towns. Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Erie. Mostly everything along the Ohio river etc. Hell even Scranton could probably count.

Thats not to say there wasn't industry cities and towns in the Northeast and they arent also rusty due to moving industries and changing economic conditions. I think of the rust belt as much geographically (probably even more so) than I do as a social or Economic classification.

There is pre war industry that became "rusty" all over the country even in Washington, California, and the deep south but I would never consider those places part of the rust belt, and I don't consider anything on the Atlantic coast to be rust belt.
Your definition is wrong. Utica NY is not Midwest or Great Lakes but it's still a rust bucket.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
What does this even mean? You are arguing that Baltimore can't be Rust Belt because of your own criteria. Your own criteria has nothing to do with the actual definition of the term. Maybe you should create a new term.
"actual definition" is a stretch
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
"actual definition" is a stretch
I guess it is your right to look like an idiot and argue "actual definitions" with the dictionary:
Quote:
Definition of rust belt
: the northeastern and midwestern states of the U.S. in which heavy industry has declined
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rust%20belt
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I guess it is your right to look like an idiot and argue "actual definitions" with the dictionary:


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rust%20belt
I can disagree with anything I want.

I think its dumb to include the northeast in the definition of rustbelt. Websters adds words to its dictionary every year that I think are idiotic and shouldn't be there.
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