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  #81  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 8:28 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by KB0679 View Post
Sorry you don't like it, but it doesn't change facts. There are definitely East Coast cities that meet the criteria of inclusion in the Rust Belt and are thus a part of it. Places can have more than one identity.

It's not all that hard to say "Well I've learned something. Interesting."
You are an uncreative shallow thinker. It can be a lot for people to color outside the lines.
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  #82  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 8:45 PM
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You are an uncreative shallow thinker. It can be a lot for people to color outside the lines.
You just hate to be wrong and think you know everything. Nothing wrong with admitting that you learned something.
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  #83  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 8:50 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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You just hate to be wrong and think you know everything. Nothing wrong with admitting that you learned something.
I don't think I know everything, I explained to you why I disagree with the Websters definition of Rust Belt and why.

You don't like my explanation, I don't like your deference to Websters definition and find your appeal to authority to be an unpersuasive shallow point.

You aren't willing to consider anything else, you are an uncreative shallow thinker. The end.
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  #84  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 8:59 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by KB0679 View Post
You just hate to be wrong and think you know everything. Nothing wrong with admitting that you learned something.
That's exactly it, that's the era in which we live, and it's extremely fucking annoying. Don't like the facts? Change the facts.
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  #85  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
you are an uncreative shallow thinker. The end.


anyone who ends a debate with a gem like that is clearly the winner.




[/sarcasm]
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  #86  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I don't think I know everything, I explained to you why I disagree with the Websters definition of Rust Belt and why.

You don't like my explanation, I don't like your deference to Websters definition and find your appeal to authority to be an unpersuasive shallow point.

You aren't willing to consider anything else, you are an uncreative shallow thinker. The end.
You have people here from East Coast cities that state they are also a part of the Rust Belt yet you continue to argue with the facts. There is no arbitrary line delineating the Rust Belt but a grouping of cities with a similar backgrounds and circumstances.
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  #87  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 9:25 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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You have people here from East Coast cities that state they are also a part of the Rust Belt yet you continue to argue with the facts. There is no arbitrary line delineating the Rust Belt but a grouping of cities with a similar backgrounds and circumstances.
None of this is facts; its all opinions and different criteria for analysis.

Not surprising Urbnanists are classically self important and chauvinistic all you need to do is look at the history of urban planning and urban policy, especially in the 20th century, to see how idiotic most in the thinking has been and how disastrous most of their policies turned out to be. It boggles the mind why anyone would take urban experts seriously given the widespread failure much less the random assholes on this forum, like you and I.

I wrote quite a bit about that very topic in the past.

So yeah I will continue to argue that calling east coast cities rust belt is stupid. And you can stamp your feet about it as much as you want.
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  #88  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 9:29 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post


anyone who ends a debate with a gem like that is clearly the winner.


[/sarcasm]
Considering his argument is literally a logical fallacy, I am probably winning.

If you are persuaded by "Webster's defines:" arguments then I have about ...infinity... High School valedictorian speeches you would find inspiring.
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  #89  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 9:33 PM
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If you are persuaded by "Webster's defines:" arguments then I have about ...infinity... High School valedictorian speeches you would find inspiring.
i'm not persuaded by anything.

i don't give much of a shit what any person does or does not include in the somewhat nebulous term "rust belt".

but some of your lines of argumentation in this thread have been awesomely bad.

i mean, a personal insult followed by a "The end."

that sure is convincing.

you win!
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  #90  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 9:48 PM
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Phoenix is not a Sun Belt city.
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  #91  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 10:03 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Considering his argument is literally a logical fallacy, I am probably winning.

If you are persuaded by "Webster's defines:" arguments then I have about ...infinity... High School valedictorian speeches you would find inspiring.
You sound like a complete idiot. But if idiot means genius to you, please enjoy the compliment.
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  #92  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 10:24 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Your argument is BAD!!!
He says with no explanation as to why

Quote:
You sound like an idiot
LOL more of that shallow intellect.

Quote:
Phoenix is not sunbelt
I think most would disagree, I don't think my discounting of new England "rust belt" cities is comparable to calling the obviously Sun belt, Phoenix, not Sun belt.

Now if I said Detroit, Chicago or Akron weren't rust belt you would maybe have a point.

However If you want to consider if we should call Southern Cities Sun Belt that is a great debate. I think many southern cities are called sun belt just because the people using that term happen to be further north. For Example, I don't think of the Carolina's as sun belt but plenty of people in the north seem too.
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  #93  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 3:09 AM
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Eastern Masshole
Hey, at least I recognize it!

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The only reason I really know about the Springfield area/its "rustbelt" characteristics is because a research colleague of mine was from Chicopee and we studied environmental health together related to the de-industrialization of our hometowns -- mine Erie, PA and his Springfield, MA. The loss of manufacturing jobs was quite similar and the resulting poverty and heath effects were startlingly similar between the two places.

I'm not sure if there was an overall net loss of jobs in the area. One thing about overall job numbers though is that they can be quite misleading since service sector jobs are far more often than not low-wage in comparison to the manufacturing jobs they're "replacing". That's been a characteristic of rust belt cities for awhile now -- unemployment numbers that aren't that bad, but median income numbers going way down, as a job at Wal-Mart doesn't pay nearly as much as a union job at GE or Westinghouse or Pratt & Whitney.
I think you’ve spelled out why Boston and Philly never felt like classic Rust Belt cities; manufacturing employment losses were offset by roughly equal numbers of new industry jobs (eds, biotech, pharma, IT etc. - the Massachusetts Miracle) so as income levels never went down. They actually went up. But that’s state-wide; I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Pioneer Valley metro saw drops in income during the 70s and 80s. That being said, Springfield is only 10% down from its peak 1960 population.
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  #94  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 9:23 PM
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Wasn't the 1980s economic revival in Massachusetts referred to as a "miracle" because it reversed economic decline and population stagnation?

A "miracle" rebound would imply that the Bay State had been a bit rust belty up to that point, perhaps especially away from the glow of the perennial prosperity on State Street, along Route 128, and among the archipelago of military- and university-related enterprises. Places like Springfield, Fall River, Lawrence, etc. were most likely "rust belt" in the recent past, if they aren't still considered so today. All are well past their respective primes, have been for quite some time now, and seem unlikely to recapture their prior prosperity or relevance.
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  #95  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
None of this is facts; its all opinions and different criteria for analysis.

Not surprising Urbnanists are classically self important and chauvinistic all you need to do is look at the history of urban planning and urban policy, especially in the 20th century, to see how idiotic most in the thinking has been and how disastrous most of their policies turned out to be. It boggles the mind why anyone would take urban experts seriously given the widespread failure much less the random assholes on this forum, like you and I.

I wrote quite a bit about that very topic in the past.

So yeah I will continue to argue that calling east coast cities rust belt is stupid. And you can stamp your feet about it as much as you want.
It is fact. Just like the earth is round. Some people still argue against it but facts are facts. Go to Syracuse, Utica, Schenectady, Scranton, Allentown and Erie tell them all those abandoned mills and plants are a figment of their imagination.
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  #96  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 12:23 AM
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Phoenix is not a Sun Belt city.

Are you confusing the Sun Belt with the Bible Belt? The Sun Belt stretches from California to the Carolinas. The Bible Belt goes no further west than Texas.
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  #97  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 12:36 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
It is fact. Just like the earth is round. Some people still argue against it but facts are facts. Go to Syracuse, Utica, Schenectady, Scranton, Allentown and Erie tell them all those abandoned mills and plants are a figment of their imagination.
What cities are or are not Rust Belt is not "factual" What would be "factual" is "Syracuse, Utica, Schenectady, Scranton, Allentown and Erie" have been CALLED rust belt. That is a fact.

What is or is not "rust belt" is not A FACT but an opinion

Furthermore the only cities in your list that I thought wouldn't fit as rust belt would be Allentown and maybe Scranton.

In my OPINION I dont think anything on the eastern seaboard should be called Rust Belt as I think rust belt is as much a geographic designation as an economic one. To me it generally applies to industrial cities along the great lakes and Ohio River. (which would include most of Upstate NY and Eastern PA) Which is what I have stated the whole time.

What is "rust belt" is not a "fact" like the earth being round. Furthermore weather something is or is not fact is irrelevant in most cases. 10 people can look at 10 facts but walk away with entirely different perceptions or opinions about or based on those "facts". "facts" are also not "truth" You can take a look at various facts, come to a conclusion and have that conclusion be entirely incorrect and different from the "Truth".

This is really basic shit guys.
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  #98  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 1:01 AM
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^To YOU.

And YOU have proven yourself time and again to be a fool from Phoenix.

Your credibility is as high as Phoenix’s skyline.
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  #99  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 2:11 AM
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If Scranton isn't Rust Belt then the term is completely meaningless.
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  #100  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 2:21 AM
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60-70 years ago the east coast was a ‘rust belt’ owing to competition with the more efficient and prosperous Midwest.

Collapse of the Midwest economy came later, 1975-1980 while the south was taking off
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