Peace Bridge | 131 Meter Span | Completed

[Chinook Arch]

I love this bridge. The fact that we are even comparing it to bridges in London and Venice etc... tells the story of it.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by mrcccondor

I'd heard rumours that the original development plans included a flashing pedestrian crossing for Memorial, but that was shelved when the project became a lightning rod.

I think they'll have to do a flashing crossing at street for the sake of safety. It'll cost $400,000 and even though it's an entirely logical and economical thing to do, it will really piss people off and slow down traffic.

I think the original plan was to get rid of the controlled crossing further east and replace it with one at the bridge. Then we heard that they couldn't do the crossing next to the bridge because of the grade difference between the landing of the bridge and the street level.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by RiverRat

You can save 7-8 minutes of time by cutting across Memorial. Most people won't try to cut in front of traffic, but cars will eventually stop to let people cross when they are queued up (I saw this several times during the bridge opening). This leads to a safety issue greater than if cars just had the right of way, and pedestrians crossed during traffic breaks.

Cars should just keep going and don't stop. A seasoned jaywalker will be able to time it without impeding traffic. I know I always prefer it if cars just keep on doing their thing...I'm the one cross the road, so it's up to me to figure it out without screwing up others.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

All that work could be done without closing the bridge.

a full deck replacement without closing? seems you'd end up with over half the width closed at a time, might end up faster to just close it down and get it done faster no?

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by mrcccondor

I'd heard rumours that the original development plans included a flashing pedestrian crossing for Memorial, but that was shelved when the project became a lightning rod.

I think they'll have to do a flashing crossing at street for the sake of safety. It'll cost $400,000 and even though it's an entirely logical and economical thing to do, it will really piss people off and slow down traffic.

They have the signalized (Red/Amber/Green) crosswalk a block away. Right at the bridge really wouldn't have worked, because of the grade difference from the dyke. It would have required stairs, or a cumbersome ramp. A block away allows the path to make the grade gradually.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

a full deck replacement without closing? seems you'd end up with over half the width closed at a time, might end up faster to just close it down and get it done faster no?

The granite was in tiles, like the Concrete is. Each tile could just be lifted, and replaced. You wouldn't even need to block off anything, really. Some cones around the area would be all you need.

[RiverRat]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

They have the signalized (Red/Amber/Green) crosswalk a block away. Right at the bridge really wouldn't have worked, because of the grade difference from the dyke. It would have required stairs, or a cumbersome ramp. A block away allows the path to make the grade gradually.

They were prepared to put the crossing in at 8th, but put it to a vote (see attached pdf):

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...ssing-info.pdf

60% of 330 people decided to keep it where it was. Reading the comments at the end: most people who voted against were car commuters. I also believe most people misunderstood the options and thought that the move to 8th street would involve removing the left turning ability of cars during rush-hour from Memorial onto 8th. This was not the case as the survey was only refering that the current restriction on right hand turns would be maintained after the crosswalk move. 8th is the only street that connects to every Ave in Sunnyside, and is also favourite throroughfare for people who take the "back way" out of the neighbourhood to get to Hillhurst/Kensington via 4th/5th Ave NW.

[Bigtime]

Any ideas on what the original spec deck would have cost? How about the LED lighting?

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Any ideas on what the original spec deck would have cost? How about the LED lighting?

The Granite deck would have been about 2 million extra, I think. It was for white granite. The lighting switch involved switching the positioning of the lighting, not just the fixtures (check the original renderings), It would have been more complicated to install, I think. (Note the LED spot lights at the centre of each X on the sides in the original rendering).

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

1) Venetians HATED this bridge when it came out

2) Have you ever walked accross it? I have. And it has got to be one of the most awkward sets of stairs I have ever ascended, with the exception of the Musee des Beaux Arts in Montreal.

Haven't walked across it, but I can see what you mean. Tiny little step heights is weird to walk on. Plus, not much of a fun bridge if you have a wheelchair for instance. Then again, Venice in general would be pretty inaccessible.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Where I think it falls short is in the details.

- The burgundy to me still feels wrong. I'd much rather it were Calatrava white...or atleast a stronger, brighter, red.

- The finishing of the red steel elements looks really rough and bumpy. I'd assume that's how it is with steel and all those curves needing welding, it just doesn't present well when you're up close. From far away, it's not an issue.

- I was most disappointed though with the inside pathways....it felt really generic and bland compared to every other Calatrava bridge out there. Most of the others have that great bouncy see-through material that can be lit up. We have bare-ass concrete. I know it was a budget issue why we switched from granite to concrete, but still, as Charles Eames said...the details make the product.

I agree with alot of that, the color is definately one thing that turns me off bigtime about the bridge, it is way too gaudy. The other thing I think looks simply terrible are the plexi-glass looking diamonds that make up the roof, they look like cheap plexi-glass.

Design-wise I am not sure they could not have changed some stuff up and actually made the bridge alot more striking to my eyes. What I think might have looked awesome is this:

1) Change the color, Calatrava White would work, slate grey would be OK, stainless steel/silver could work.

2) Instead of those cheap looking plexi-glass roof windows make those sections out of the blue tinted glass that Calatrava has used on so many of his bridges walkways and design the lighting of the bridge such that at night the blue diamonds light up in that aquamarine color that alot of his bridges show and the whole bridge glows blue over the river in the dark.

3) Make the pathway of the bridge out of the see through glass panels as well and use under bridge lighting that not only reflects off the water at night but also immuminates the path as almost all of Calatrava's bridges do.

Keep the chinese finger puzzle shape, keep the engineering marvel that it is. If they simple changed the color, used that blue tinted glass and dynamic lighting that made it glow at night, if they built the pathway in the way that Calatrava is known for with a glowing blue pathway and under bridge lighting thatalso lights up the water below. I think that alone would have made the bridge look WAY better. I am not totally stoked on the actual design, but had they chosen the right color and used the blue tinted glass and awesome lighting design I think it would look WAY better and I might actually like it.

[kw5150]

Let this thread die. The bridge is no longer under construction.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by AUM

I had never intended to be pretentious. I have always been and advocate for Calgary and will continue to be even though I live in Vancouver at the present time. If my wanting Calgary to be even better than it is makes what I contribute of no value then I will stop contributing. It was never my intent to offend anyone or appear to act elitist. I have always respected other members of the forum and their opinions but it appears that is not something I can expect in return. Therefore I have removed my previous post.

I would have liked to read that post.

Message boards where everyone has the exact same opinion are boring. Getting various viewpoints, seeing how one person loves something while others do not is part of what makes the participation in a place like this interesting and enlightening. I am definately in the minority viewpoint on this bridge, but the dialogue made me think about what I hate the most about it and I figured out that a simple change of the color of the bridge, the roof panels, and the lighting system could go a LONG way to making me like it alot (yep I said it!) more.

I on the other hand love the Erikson design for the Eau Claire condo proposal but comments today I read showed that some people dislike it and think it looks too much like it belongs in Cancun. Just goes to show, everyone has different tastes and styles, they all have different opinions. If all we ever had were people spewing the exact same opinions the board would become boring real fast.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Tropics

I would have liked to read that post.

Message boards where everyone has the exact same opinion are boring. Getting various viewpoints, seeing how one person loves something while others do not is part of what makes the participation in a place like this interesting and enlightening. I am definately in the minority viewpoint on this bridge, but the dialogue made me think about what I hate the most about it and I figured out that a simple change of the color of the bridge, the roof panels, and the lighting system could go a LONG way to making me like it alot (yep I said it!) more.

I on the other hand love the Erikson design for the Eau Claire condo proposal but comments today I read showed that some people dislike it and think it looks too much like it belongs in Cancun. Just goes to show, everyone has different tastes and styles, they all have different opinions. If all we ever had were people spewing the exact same opinions the board would become boring real fast.

I think maybe the other forum members have already been through the colour selection debate LOOOOONG ago in the thread. It was stated that "the white colour would have been nice" and probably "it should have LEDs" and so on and so on............ Look how many pages this thread is.

Whats done is done. Is the the bridge going to be perfect for everyone? No. Most people on this forum ARE striving for better designs, we are just done talking about this bridge I think.

Lets now focus on the next bridge they are designing and other new infrastructure being announced.

I agree that your colours, glass and lighting would have looked better. I would have also added some nice wood top rails to the guard rails, and I would not have made the lighting covers (at ground level) white. They are already covered in mud.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Tropics

I agree with alot of that, the color is definately one thing that turns me off bigtime about the bridge, it is way too gaudy. The other thing I think looks simply terrible are the plexi-glass looking diamonds that make up the roof, they look like cheap plexi-glass.

Design-wise I am not sure they could not have changed some stuff up and actually made the bridge alot more striking to my eyes. What I think might have looked awesome is this:

1) Change the color, Calatrava White would work, slate grey would be OK, stainless steel/silver could work.

2) Instead of those cheap looking plexi-glass roof windows make those sections out of the blue tinted glass that Calatrava has used on so many of his bridges walkways and design the lighting of the bridge such that at night the blue diamonds light up in that aquamarine color that alot of his bridges show and the whole bridge glows blue over the river in the dark.

3) Make the pathway of the bridge out of the see through glass panels as well and use under bridge lighting that not only reflects off the water at night but also immuminates the path as almost all of Calatrava's bridges do.

Keep the chinese finger puzzle shape, keep the engineering marvel that it is. If they simple changed the color, used that blue tinted glass and dynamic lighting that made it glow at night, if they built the pathway in the way that Calatrava is known for with a glowing blue pathway and under bridge lighting thatalso lights up the water below. I think that alone would have made the bridge look WAY better. I am not totally stoked on the actual design, but had they chosen the right color and used the blue tinted glass and awesome lighting design I think it would look WAY better and I might actually like it.

I'm not familiar with these from other Calatrava bridges, but would they not be slippery when it rains?

I think one thing which could have made it more interesting would have been if it curved a bit to the left or right, or if it undulated or something. That said I'm withholding judgement until I see it in person.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Let this thread die. The bridge is no longer under construction.

Yes the bridge is done, but now that it's finished, I think it should be ok to critique the final product. Feel free to stop visiting this thread.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Tropics

I agree with alot of that, the color is definately one thing that turns me off bigtime about the bridge, it is way too gaudy. The other thing I think looks simply terrible are the plexi-glass looking diamonds that make up the roof, they look like cheap plexi-glass.

Design-wise I am not sure they could not have changed some stuff up and actually made the bridge alot more striking to my eyes. What I think might have looked awesome is this:

1) Change the color, Calatrava White would work, slate grey would be OK, stainless steel/silver could work..

IMO the other colors that you mention wouldn't contrast the snow and the river and make it pop like it does

Blue, grey, etc. would have blended in with the rest of the river, making it a non-sight, the way it is it stands out

Originally Posted by Tropics

2) Instead of those cheap looking plexi-glass roof windows make those sections out of the blue tinted glass that Calatrava has used on so many of his bridges walkways and design the lighting of the bridge such that at night the blue diamonds light up in that aquamarine color that alot of his bridges show and the whole bridge glows blue over the river in the dark..

I can agree with you on the lighting, I would have liked more striking lighting, but we don't need anymore aquamarine in this city we have far to much of it as it is

Originally Posted by Tropics

3) Make the pathway of the bridge out of the see through glass panels as well and use under bridge lighting that not only reflects off the water at night but also immuminates the path as almost all of Calatrava's bridges do.

Keep the chinese finger puzzle shape, keep the engineering marvel that it is. If they simple changed the color, used that blue tinted glass and dynamic lighting that made it glow at night, if they built the pathway in the way that Calatrava is known for with a glowing blue pathway and under bridge lighting thatalso lights up the water below. I think that alone would have made the bridge look WAY better. I am not totally stoked on the actual design, but had they chosen the right color and used the blue tinted glass and awesome lighting design I think it would look WAY better and I might actually like it.

Glass panels would make for a skating rink 8 months of the year and would look dirty the other 4 months, not really a good surface for a winter climate, I agree lighting the deck would look great, but the practicality of glass panels doesn't exist in out climate.

[AUM]

Tropics,

My original post was discussing the importance of engaging the public to ensure that Calgary continues to see better architecture. I found that while in Calgary, outside of this forum, there was little discussion on design by the professional community that involved the public. To ensure better design I feel you need public support. In order for this to happen the public needs to feel part of the process or that they have a voice. The industry (architects, urban designers, landscape architects, planners, etc.) should be that voice. From the architecture side that I was familiar with there was and is still a lack of this as only a few in the industry are true advocates; like Marc Boutin, Jeremy Sturgess and small handful of others. What is needed is for the all members of the industry who are shaping this city to also show their support and begin participating in these discussions that engage the public; ie. public lectures, debates, etc.

Living in Vancouver now I have been observing the processes here and participating in the design community and public discussions to see what does and doesn't work.

I think the ideas and input shared in our forums need to extend to the public and design community so that Calgary can continue to raise the bar with every new project. Europe is a good example of the public demanding better from the building and design industry. I think Calgary can reach a similar level but it requires the building and design community to engage the public more in the debate.

If you could imagine Calagary's citizens being as passionate about design as many of us in these forums then there is no way developers, builders, designers and the city could avoid doing nothing but great projects.

That is what I was trying to share before, but one member chose to accuse me of being an elitist and contributing nothing of value in my posts. I'm an advocate for great design and also for seeing Calgary succeed in this area. Even though I no longer live there at the present moment I still feel a vested interested and excited at what as been accomplished to date.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

This really happened:

[IMGhttp://i.imgur.com/Au7KF.png[/IMG]

Love it.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by AUM

Tropics,

My original post was discussing the importance of engaging the public to ensure that Calgary continues to see better architecture. I found that while in Calgary, outside of this forum, there was little discussion on design by the professional community that involved the public. To ensure better design I feel you need public support. In order for this to happen the public needs to feel part of the process or that they have a voice. The industry (architects, urban designers, landscape architects, planners, etc.) should be that voice. From the architecture side that I was familiar with there was and is still a lack of this as only a few in the industry are true advocates; like Marc Boutin, Jeremy Sturgess and small handful of others. What is needed is for the all members of the industry who are shaping this city to also show their support and begin participating in these discussions that engage the public; ie. public lectures, debates, etc.

Living in Vancouver now I have been observing the processes here and participating in the design community and public discussions to see what does and doesn't work.

I think the ideas and input shared in our forums need to extend to the public and design community so that Calgary can continue to raise the bar with every new project. Europe is a good example of the public demanding better from the building and design industry. I think Calgary can reach a similar level but it requires the building and design community to engage the public more in the debate.

If you could imagine Calagary's citizens being as passionate about design as many of us in these forums then there is no way developers, builders, designers and the city could avoid doing nothing but great projects.

That is what I was trying to share before, but one member chose to accuse me of being an elitist and contributing nothing of value in my posts. I'm an advocate for great design and also for seeing Calgary succeed in this area. Even though I no longer live there at the present moment I still feel a vested interested and excited at what as been accomplished to date.

I cannot imagine how anyone would disagree with any of that. So many of us jumped all over the Herald Square design because it was boring and uninspired, and that got scrapped and now we have a design competition for the whole block. Most people on this forum were quite happy to see the chance at something better and some of us wondered if some people from industry might not have caught word of the discussions about the previous design.

If the public had more input into things they would be more open to large projects like the Peace Bridge because they feel like part of the process instead of simply the "tax payer" that is paying for the city council to build a bridge. The public in general want, and should have more input into major projects then a single vote for a mayor every few years. I contacted my Alderman about some development in my ward of the city and its direction and he acted as if future development was not the concern of the public and was really none of their business. That is an absurd attitude and it is very wrong.

Communities should have open meetings in their community hall every year that include both their alderman and the mayor. Issues about future development within the ward, concerns the citizens of that community have about infrastructure and social issues, the direction they want to see development take and the way they want to see their community grow should be listened to and those viewpoints should weigh VERY strongly in the decisions that city council then makes. The city council in Calgary can at times seem to be far too much like a private club where a small group of aldermen act on their own wishes and don't concern themselves much with the wishes of the other 1,200,000 people in the city.