Peace Bridge | 131 Meter Span | Completed

[Blader]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Hell, from listening to radio call in shows, I'd have to conclude that all Calgarians are a bunch of unemployed, drunk, redneck paranoids.

Rednecks, have no home - they exist in every community and love call in shows. Anecdotally, when I lived in Toronto and riding the subway (filled with visible minorities), I witnessed a white sob on the car I was in, yelling at them to go back home. Call in shows and newspaper polls do not even remotely represent the community at large. Whether it's a bridge or an ethnicity, or whatever, some just love to hate and this is the bread and butter of call in shows and newspaper polls.

That aside, with respect to rednecks, my experience in Calgary is that it's no different from Toronto. Media, likes controversy, and unfortunately tosses balance out window because balance doesn't attract an audience.
[end rant]

[freeweed]

Agreed, but my point wasn't specifically about Calgary. It just happens to be where I currently live, and as such, hear rednecks on the radio. In fact my reasoning was exactly that - Calgary is NOT full of rednecks in general (contrary to eastern stereotypes), but the radio sure makes it feel like it.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by fusili

[...]
It just makes me angry that these kinds of polls are construed as an accurate representation of public opinion. I am not going to make any comments about what public opinion is of the bridge until an actual polling firm conducts an actual scientific public opinion poll. Until then, I consider a poll like this to be worth just as much as the paper it is printed in. Pun intended.

All public opinion polls are suspect to a greater or lesser extent. People lie, or choose not to participate. The best polls (such as certain election polls) tend to closely mimic actual opinions of the day. But even those are problematic now, as random phone calls do not get a random sampling of the population - they get a) those people who have phones and choose to answer them (call display and cel phones are skewing things even more) and b) those people who choose to participate.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics!

[Blader]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Agreed, but my point wasn't specifically about Calgary..

I know that - went out on a tangent - my rant - apologies

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

All public opinion polls are suspect to a greater or lesser extent. People lie, or choose not to participate. The best polls (such as certain election polls) tend to closely mimic actual opinions of the day. But even those are problematic now, as random phone calls do not get a random sampling of the population - they get a) those people who have phones and choose to answer them (call display and cel phones are skewing things even more) and b) those people who choose to participate.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics!

Totally agreed. But the Sun could do a lot better with their polling.

[Wooster]

http://spacing.ca/wire/2009/08/05/wo...-streets-view/

[Grendel]

Commission votes for ego-boosting bridge

By RICK BELL

Last Updated: 7th August 2009, 4:55am


The city's planning commission voted in favour of building a controversial footbridge yesterday. Only two of the nine-member panel voted against the construction.
When it comes to the bridge, they are a rubber stamp -- without ink.

But stamp they do. Is that good enough, Bronco? Please say it's good enough Bronco.

Yesterday, we are close to the bitter end and it is the city council-appointed planning commission in the role of accepting the city council's plans for the Calatrava bridge. Huh?

With the Calatrava creation, this commission has less power than North Korea's puppet parliament.

It doesn't matter, since the majority in the room are (A) bigwigs at the city or (B) in the self-styled stylish set who would wear Calatrava game jerseys if such things existed or (C) Ald. Druh Farrell.

Still, by the time the script plays out two people vote No: Ray Clark, a former alderman and land planner Ron Zazelenchuk. It is 7 to 2. The bridge construction moves ahead.

No one will answer the questions of Calgarians. It isn't about you and me. It's about a few people at the highest levels of the city lusting after an ego-boosting bridge across the Bow.

Do we need the footbridge? Do we need the footbridge there? Do we need a $25-million footbridge? Do we need a footbridge by Santiago Calatrava? Can anyone tell us the story of this bridge from A to Z without their nose growing?

No, the planning chinwag isn't about that, though city planning poobah David Watson says the commission represents us. Er ... right.

We see the city's propaganda bridge video and Druh looks like a kid on a first visit to Disneyland. Madeleine King, defeated by Little Johnny Mar in the last election, is excited, especially about the way the bridge "comes off the banks without the normal buttress." She talks a lot about buttresses.

Madeleine also talks a lot about the red of the bridge.

"It's stunning but I think we're not used to stunning colours."

Much chinwagging goes on about exactly what tone of red will be on the bridge and we find out different reds will be tested out on a sample of the bridge material and presented to the designer.

We also find out the bridge isn't a Chinese finger trap.

It's a "helical formed steel structure with repeating modules of semi-elliptical cross-sections constructed from circular arcs that wrap around the ellipse and interconnect the top and bottom chord element."

Calatrava calls his bridge "an innovative object." The city hired hands tell us "the architectural vision of the bridge was inspired by the context of the place at its location." Yes, if you pay some people enough they will spew this crap with a straight face.

One dude mutters on about creating history and mentions the Reichstag. Druh sees the bridge as "elegant, simple and quite genius" adding "it will be very comfortable" and hoping, when graffiti hits, the replacement red paint will match.

Ald. Joe Connelly, who is not on the commission and sits in the cheap seats, quickly leaves. He appears to be gagging.

Ray Clark tries to ask questions about how this bridge came to be. It is ruled out of order. Ray asks whether the public had a say. The city does meet with professors, architects and something called the Urban Design Review Panel who take a peek, love the bridge but worry about making sure the red wasn't Flames red or Stampeders red.

By this time, I'm seeing red. Who is this panel? No one knows. A few question the unfinished plans for landscaping or how the bridge doesn't line up with 8 St. on the north side or how the wind analysis isn't done or how much it's going to take to clean all the glass or how the bridge looks like a haven for pigeons.

Then it's over. Two vote no. Ray doesn't see the bridge fitting into the Bow River and downtown. Ron thinks it's a great piece in the wrong place. The rest swoon.

Ald. Joe Connelly manages a few words about the consequences some will face down the line.

"What gets people off the couch? Anger. People are angry and they will vote," he predicts.

Now seeing that would be like a first trip to Disneyland.

[greg_a]

"Calgary's Peace Bridge 'gorgeous,' city planners say"

http://www.calgaryherald.com/enterta...049/story.html

[Calgarian]

Please stop posting articles by that tool Rick Bell, that guy doesn't have any idea what he is talking about.

[Fiveway]

The city does meet with professors, architects and something called the Urban Design Review Panel who take a peek, love the bridge but worry about making sure the red wasn't Flames red or Stampeders red. By this time, I'm seeing red. Who is this panel? No one knows.

Why don't you do some research Rick? I'm sure he's forgotten what research is, because he doesn't need it for his brand of 'journalism'. But typing "Calgary Urban Design Review Panel" into google brings up the names in the first link returned. Talk about a red herring.

[DizzyEdge]

Can we have a forum rule that Rick Bell articles are not news worthy as per the current events forum rules "or articles from sources whose reason for existing is to be partisan to one side of the political spectrum and biased against the other are not mainstream sources and are thus not permitted."

[korzym]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Can we have a forum rule that Rick Bell articles are not news worthy as per the current events forum rules "or articles from sources whose reason for existing is to be partisan to one side of the political spectrum and biased against the other are not mainstream sources and are thus not permitted."

lol pretty hypocritical thing to say

Your blatantly proposing rule where if you disagree with this bridge your a troll or w/e

Truth is people are finding out about Ric McIver: tax-payers' best friend, all because of this bridge. Yall are downplaying this, but the majority of Calgarians by far are upset about this bridge and never try ways to justify it.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ I don't buy it, it isn't a ballot issue. It won't be in fall 2010. People only care about it because there is no other news. It is a paltry expense when the next big argument is whether to build the SE LRT or the downtown 8th Ave subway first, for ~2 billion or ~$600 million respectively. (hint: McIver wants to build the project that is far more as expensive)

Calgarians have never shown themselves to align with the antitax brigade, and the people that are mad already vote and haven't defeated our centre right council so far. I don't see that situation changing.

[korzym]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ I don't buy it, it isn't a ballot issue. It won't be in fall 2010. People only care about it because there is no other news. It is a paltry expense when the next big argument is whether to build the SE LRT or the downtown 8th Ave subway first, for ~$600 million or ~2 billion respectively. (hint: McIver wants to build the project that is far more as expensive)

Calgarians have never shown themselves to align with the antitax brigade, and the people that are mad already vote and haven't defeated our centre right council so far. I don't see that situation changing.

common sense would say the se lrt is projected to cost $2b, and the subway $600m, if so next time you write, list the figures in proper order next time in accordance with the items' written order. Clarity is power, dont know which your referring to for funding

with that out of the way, $2b for a track many KMs long vs a couple km for a subway is indeed a wise decision. more value for the money. this kind of criticism is akin to liberals & ndp going after harper for not having a big enough stimulus then whining about a deficit during a recession after he gives into stimulus demands.

bronconnier and mciver will have more equal campaign funding this time around, plus mciver has that right wing group that will also help the campaign indirectly. with rush limbaugh coming to town as well as mike huckabee coming to town, they'll probably bring in $1-3M dollars for the conservative cause, hate them or love them. [telus center will b packed with $500 tickets] last update was that bronco had a paltry $300k left in his coffers, with mciver having $90k but much higher visibility, never ran for mayor before, recieving a lot of encouragement to do so.

things are different this time, its sad to see the denial going on here of the freight train moving at full speed towards bronco. the past does not equal the future.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ oops, my bad on the figure mixing, my mistake. As for Value for money, the subway doubles the capacity of the NE - W LRT and more than triples the capacity on the NW-S LRT. If you were to look at the sheer amount of capacity gained per dollar, it is clear the subway is more cost effective! (to be honest, it doesn't really matter in the long term, I could care less which gets built first since both will be built in the end. We just don't have the funding for the SE LRT without green trip, where we have enough for 8th Ave from MSI and gas tax.)

And if money was all that mattered on a campaign, Alnoor Kassam would be Mayor right now! And the same PGIB group was supporting us (and the Unions, politics makes strange bedfellows sometimes).

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by korzym

lol pretty hypocritical thing to say

Your blatantly proposing rule where if you disagree with this bridge your a troll or w/e

Truth is people are finding out about Ric McIver: tax-payers' best friend, all because of this bridge. Yall are downplaying this, but the majority of Calgarians by far are upset about this bridge and never try ways to justify it.

Don't worry, I was trolling in that post

[korzym]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ oops, my bad on the figure mixing, my mistake. As for Value for money, the subway doubles the capacity of the NE - W LRT and more than triples the capacity on the NW-S LRT. If you were to look at the sheer amount of capacity gained per dollar, it is clear the subway is more cost effective! (to be honest, it doesn't really matter in the long term, I could care less which gets built first since both will be built in the end. We just don't have the funding for the SE LRT without green trip, where we have enough for 8th Ave from MSI and gas tax.)

And if money was all that mattered on a campaign, Alnoor Kassam would be Mayor right now! And the same PGIB group was supporting us (and the Unions, politics makes strange bedfellows sometimes).

true but he was the fool that attacked bronconnier very negatively, with little firepower; he clung to the transit issue but not enough people came on board. theres mass out-cry vs bronconnier this time around. imo mciver has a 1-2 punch here with funding and political will of calgarians

[Fiveway]

Someone in the Herald comments in that last article got it right. Calgarians are sheep. The Sun gets everyone all hot and bothered for a week or so. They say they'll make themselves heard by voting, but they never do. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see people get passionate and show up in droves to vote. But at the end of the day my gut says that most people don't actually care enough to even bother to show up.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by Fiveway

Someone in the Herald comments in that last article got it right. Calgarians are sheep. The Sun gets everyone all hot and bothered for a week or so. They say they'll make themselves heard by voting, but they never do. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see people get passionate and show up in droves to vote. But at the end of the day my gut says that most people don't actually care enough to even bother to show up.

I can't imagine what the Sun's cause de jour will be closer to election time, but I can all but guarantee that this issue will be water under the bridge

[Stang]

I can see it both ways. I can see this being long forgotten by the time the election rolls around, but I can also see the public rallying around a relatively small but high profile project (like the bridge) and making it an election issue.

It seems that lately people are picking up the anti-bridge cause with a certain fervour that I haven't seen in a while. Although I believe this fervour is largely based on misinformation, sheep/mob mentality, etc., a misinformed vote is a vote nonetheless.

I like the idea of some new ideas and fresh thought at city council - that's what elections are for. I just hope that the average citizen is able to put away the Rick Bell quotes and think independently.

Enter the apathy card, the economic card (at the time of the election), and all sorts of other variables and we could see ourselves an interesting election.