[Halifax] Monaghan Square (6100 Young Street) | 2X54 m | 2x17 fl | Completed

[Drybrain]

EDIT: Responded to wrong thread.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Takeo

Likely a little of both. The condo prices in Halifax are way out of whack. And it's not an aesthetically pleasing area. No "vibe" at all. I think it'll be amazing in 10 years. But not now.

Yeah.... If I were in the market for a condo in Halifax, I have to imagine that depending on what was driving my purchase, I'd prioritize different things... all scenarios I imagine leave this particular location wanting... for now. I agree that in ten years it'll hopefully be a lot better, but it's surrounded by big-box suburban style development with lots of surface parking and wide streets. If that's what buyers want, why pay to be on the peninsula?

Once it makes sense for the strip malls across the street to sell/develop the land closest to the street... the building complex at the corner of Young and Windsor happens... the old Piercy's location is developed NICELY... the new Rona and Shoppers Drug Marts are torn down... the no-mans-land of Tims/gas station surrounded by asphalt is redeveloped... Then, it'll be a nice place to live.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Yeah.... If I were in the market for a condo in Halifax, I have to imagine that depending on what was driving my purchase, I'd prioritize different things... all scenarios I imagine leave this particular location wanting... for now. I agree that in ten years it'll hopefully be a lot better, but it's surrounded by big-box suburban style development with lots of surface parking and wide streets. If that's what buyers want, why pay to be on the peninsula?

Once it makes sense for the strip malls across the street to sell/develop the land closest to the street... the building complex at the corner of Young and Windsor happens... the old Piercy's location is developed NICELY... the new Rona and Shoppers Drug Marts are torn down... the no-mans-land of Tims/gas station surrounded by asphalt is redeveloped... Then, it'll be a nice place to live.

Agree on all points... however... it IS on the peninsula. Which (as a peninsula dweller myself) is awesome. You never ever have to sit in traffic. And although that whole city block between Robie / Young / Almon / Windsor is very ugly... you can walk to just about anything. I think in 10 years it will have a very nice uptown feel. But yah, it's pretty ugly now. I don't think the surface parking will completely disappear but it will be a lot more filled in over time.

[Takeo]

I wonder what this might mean for the Windsor Towers project. I think those were supposed to be condos as well. Have to wonder what those developers think of this condo failure. I think the lesson might be to focus on smaller more affordable units. The $199,900 entry level units at Monaghan sold out within months of pre-sales 2 years ago. But the bigger $300,000 units (1 bedroom and up) still had tons of availability the last I heard (a month ago). You could still take you pick.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Takeo

I wonder what this might mean for the Windsor Towers project. I think those were supposed to be condos as well. Have to wonder what those developers think of this condo failure. I think the lesson might be to focus on smaller more affordable units. The $199,900 entry level units at Monaghan sold out within months of pre-sales 2 years ago. But the bigger $300,000 units (1 bedroom and up) still had tons of availability the last I heard (a month ago). You could still take you pick.

I am in no way a sales expert, but my perception is that $300k - $350k is probably reaching the upper limit of what you'd want for the majority of units. Anything much above that and you're starting to compete with houses, plus some of the other luxury buildings (Roy, Gorsebrook) that are better located. The pool of people buying at $350+ is likely small-ish, and their options more diverse. Gonna be hard to fill a 17 floor tower with people from that pool.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I am in no way a sales expert, but my perception is that $300k - $350k is probably reaching the upper limit of what you'd want for the majority of units. Anything much above that and you're starting to compete with houses, plus some of the other luxury buildings (Roy, Gorsebrook) that are better located. The pool of people buying at $350+ is likely small-ish, and their options more diverse. Gonna be hard to fill a 17 floor tower with people from that pool.

Yup. A $350,000 condo makes sense in Toronto where a house cost a million dollars. It makes a lot less sense in Halifax where there are still TONS of houses available on the Peninsula for... the exact same price. So unless it's right downtown or has some other amazing differentiator... I don't think the business model works. Clearly it didn't work for Monaghan. Harris East was smart. They kept costs down by making almost ALL of the units small to tiny (aside from a handful of "penthouse lofts") and using Wood construction. So they hit a sweet spot of $250,000 average price. And it sold like hot cakes. Monaghan had studios in that price range but 80%+ of the units there were full 1 beds and 2s in the $300 - $700,000 range. Crazy. I bet we're going to see more condo proposals in Halifax either put on the back burner or switched to apartments. I bet Windsor Towers... if it happens, will be all apartments as opposed to a mix.

[Keith P.]

This raises a question I never really considered before: what is the typical cost for the developer of a condo of a given size? I understand that finishes, building amenities, etc will affect that but I wonder what the profit margin is for one of those $350K condos?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

This raises a question I never really considered before: what is the typical cost for the developer of a condo of a given size? I understand that finishes, building amenities, etc will affect that but I wonder what the profit margin is for one of those $350K condos?

And 350K is the average price for an HRM condo, yet the average house price is 320K. On the peninsula that shifts and condos are a bit cheaper than houses, but not much.

A good comparison for Halifax would be another reasonably well off but generally middle-class, mid-sized city with a fair bit of construction. So, Winnipeg. The average price of a condo there is about 235K, and the average home (combining all types) is about 280K. I'm sure the cost of construction is largely the same, so I'm equally sure that Halifax developers could drop condo prices quite substantially and still make a profit.

Halifax's condo prices are a bargain compared to many cities, but not when measured against other housing types in the local market. I can't imagine another city where condo prices are on average higher than the overall home-price average.

[Dmajackson]

New stone cladding being installed on the podium and what looks like wood panels on the tower.


Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)

[Jonovision]

At least from a distance it looks like a quality material. Although this tower is now pushing itself into the realm of having too many materials. Hopefully it all comes together though.

[Takeo]

People are supposedly moving into this building tomorrow (June 1). How they could possible obtain an occupancy permit for what is clearly still a VERY active construction site and doesn't even have all the balcony railings on yet is beyond me. I'm 99.999% sure they actually do NOT have an occupancy permit and, like The Boss Plaza, may be setting themselves up for being the recipient of some hefty fines.

[kph06]

Originally Posted by Takeo

People are supposedly moving into this building tomorrow (June 1). How they could possible obtain an occupancy permit for what is clearly still a VERY active construction site and doesn't even have all the balcony railings on yet is beyond me. I'm 99.999% sure they actually do NOT have an occupancy permit and, like The Boss Plaza, may be setting themselves up for being the recipient of some hefty fines.

I don't think I'd want to be moving in at this point, but it seems to be common. It's hard to imagine you'd see a repeat of Boss Plaza, I don't think they had the essentials of water or locks according to the CBC article. I've had friends who moved in to new buildings that were still work zones, if the balconies don't have railings then the patio doors are locked and the handles aren't installed. Only the installer can operate the door.

[musicman]

Originally Posted by Takeo

People are supposedly moving into this building tomorrow (June 1). How they could possible obtain an occupancy permit for what is clearly still a VERY active construction site and doesn't even have all the balcony railings on yet is beyond me. I'm 99.999% sure they actually do NOT have an occupancy permit and, like The Boss Plaza, may be setting themselves up for being the recipient of some hefty fines.

As long as that section of the building is complete you can get a residency permit... The alexander downtown is going to be a stepped occupancy as well starting in early fall with the podium levels...

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by kph06

I don't think I'd want to be moving in at this point, but it seems to be common. It's hard to imagine you'd see a repeat of Boss Plaza, I don't think they had the essentials of water or locks according to the CBC article. I've had friends who moved in to new buildings that were still work zones, if the balconies don't have railings then the patio doors are locked and the handles aren't installed. Only the installer can operate the door.

I think the person in that article was an exception. Her agent likely screwed up. I looked into this building and no one was promising Jan 1. Certainly not in December when she claimed she signed! People DID move in for February 1 on the lower floors (I think 1 thru 5) but everything was done by then (water, locks, railings, power). It just had concrete floors and a lot of finish work still happening on upper floors (paint, cabinets, appliances). Nevertheless... they didn't get occupancy until Feb 23. And I was told it was because the inspector refused to allow them to partially occupy the building. He insisted on the entire building passing inspection. But that's just what I heard. Who knows.

I've also been in Monaghan recently. And you're right, the balcony doors are all locked with the handles removed. And I suppose they could even lock people out of the upper floors. But as of late last week the elevators still weren't even working yet! And nothing above the 3rd or 4th floor had power, locks or water. It's a lot further behind than the Boss was on Feb 1 (but maybe not on Jan 1). At least on the upper floors. I think floors 2 thru 4 are probably totally finished and good to go... maybe 5. Not sure. From 6 up there's still a lot to do.

[someone123]

I have friends who are just about to move into a condo and their original move-in date was estimated to be sometime in 2013. I know of other people whose units were modified from the original plans. In one case they had to have vents installed through the middle of their unit and in the other case they got a concrete support column in the middle of their open-concept living room/kitchen.

I don't think it makes sense to buy pre-construction condos unless you get a huge discount. You never know what will go wrong, including issues that show up 3-5 years after construction.I don't know about Halifax but here in Vancouver there is no discount. People fall for the shiny renderings and model suites.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by someone123

I have friends who are just about to move into a condo and their original move-in date was estimated to be sometime in 2013. I know of other people whose units were modified from the original plans. In one case they had to have vents installed through the middle of their unit and in the other case they got a concrete support column in the middle of their open-concept living room/kitchen.

I don't think it makes sense to buy pre-construction condos unless you get a huge discount. You never know what will go wrong, including issues that show up 3-5 years after construction.I don't know about Halifax but here in Vancouver there is no discount. People fall for the shiny renderings and model suites.

Yah there are people who put down $10,000 deposits for the "signature tower" at King's Wharf ten years ago that will probably die before the building is ever built. They had a hard time selling the 4 small towers they have now. All of them are full of rentals.

And The Avery (which is simply stunning inside... and impeccably well done... most beautiful condo I've seen in Halifax... amazing) has sold 12 units in 3 years. Construction is done and they're incorporated and all that... but the developer is paying all the condo fees. You gotta think at some point prices may drop or they may try to start renting some of them like King's Wharf did.

[DT Hfx]

They have no occupancy permit as of today; no tenants have moved in yet either but, if necessary, are being allowed to move their things into the unit as a courtesy. It would appear that 21 podium units are taken up already - around 50% of total podium apartments for the 1st phase. Nice to see the new buildings filling up.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by DT Hfx

They have no occupancy permit as of today; no tenants have moved in yet either but, if necessary, are being allowed to move their things into the unit as a courtesy. It would appear that 21 podium units are taken up already - around 50% of total podium apartments for the 1st phase. Nice to see the new buildings filling up.

I knew there was no way they'd have it based on what I saw the week before last. Just like The Boss. Hopefully they're vigilant about keeping people's stuff locked up. I don't know how content insurance works in a case like this if something were to happen to your stuff (highly unlikely but good to know). Unlike The Boss (United Gulf) I don't believe this company has any other buildings where they can offer people a place to stay. If you're renting you always have to give at least a month's notice so I'm sure there are people now with all their belongings stored at a construction site and nowhere to live. I'm actually living at The Boss and I went through the same thing. So I can sympathize. Crappy situation to be in.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Apologies..I couldn't get too close to this project, I was in a rush. The crane is up for another phase seemingly, taken about 3 days ago on a cellphone:
[IMG]Halifax....just outta downtown by Josh Kenn Photographics, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Duff]