Real Estate in your city

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by subterranean

With the exception of their tiny strip of downtown, Northville is your stereotypical exurban sprawl factory far away from anything worth caring about. It is surrounded on all sides by Northville Township and Novi, which is exactly the sprawly shit you say it’s not.

Basically the entire city of Northville is walkable and older. That's about 6,000 people. Definitely no McMansion type developments. It's small, but I wouldn't call it tiny. Plymouth, to the south, has an even larger prewar core (actually 2 cores), though it isn't quite as cutesy/fancy.

Yes, the rest of the area is mostly sprawly hell, but what's the point? I thought you were extolling the relative benefits of Metro Detroit home prices. Almost all of Metro Detroit is sprawly hell. Have you seen Hall Road? Telegraph Road? Dixie Highway? The few parts that aren't sprawl hell are either fairly expensive or generally shitty. Exceptions like Birmingham or Ecorse are off the table for most.

I can think of a few older cores that aren't shit or expensive, but not many. Wyandotte (but bad schools and no way highly educated people will live next to factories downriver), Farmington (cute core but high taxes and declining school district), St. Clair Shores doesn't have a downtown but it isn't super sprawly, it's cheap and the schools are OK. Rochester has a cute downtown and is somewhat expensive but great schools and still cheaper than Bloomfield-Birmingham or Northville. Plymouth has a great core, pretty good schools and isn't crazy expensive.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by subterranean

This 984 sq. ft. house just sold for $400k in a relatively low-income area in the suburbs of Portland.

To put this price into perspective at current interest rates, a buyer would need an annual household income of about $120,000 to qualify with 5% down.

The median income for a family of 4 in the Portland region is $114,400. Median income for all households was $81,149 in 2021, according to the Oregon Employment Department.

You would have to be in the top 85th percentile of households in terms of income to afford this small starter home in today's market. The payment would be about $3,100 per month on a standard 30-year mortgage including property taxes.

My payments (including escrow) for two houses out here in flyover country are less than that tiny house in Portland:


The interest rate is 3.1% on both of them.

[edale]

Some of you wouldn't know Victorian character if it hit you in the face! Come on, definitely no McMansions in this Civil War era streetscape!

Seriously, though, I do love how Metro Detroit has so many pleasant suburban downtowns. Downtown Northville looks very nice.

[homebucket]

Beaux Arts Beauty Suddenly Back on the Market
OCT 10, 2023



Purchased for $7.3 million eleven months ago, the full-floor, two-bedroom unit #3 in the iconic Beaux Arts building at 1001 California Street has suddenly returned to the market with a $7.9 million price tag.

The 3,500-square-foot unit was completely overhauled in the late 90’s by Andrew Skurman and Suzanne Tucker, traded for $4.5 million in October of 2011, returned to the market priced at $12.8 million in late 2018, and had been reduced down to $7.9 million in April of last year, prior to last year’s sale at roughly $2,100 per square foot, which was officially “within 8 percent of asking” according to all industry stats and aggregate reports.

https://socketsite.com/archives/2023...he-market.html

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by homebucket

https://socketsite.com/archives/2023...he-market.html

Ive always loved that building-so bougie

[JManc]

At first glance, I thought the entire building was selling for $7.9 million.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by subterranean

What are people here doing in terms of housing with the current market conditions?

I feel like my wife and I are trapped in a house we don’t want to be in. I know we’re not alone. We planned to ride out our current situation until our two kids were no longer in daycare and then buy a better house in a better neighborhood. Alas, that won’t be happening at 7% interest.

To move into a house that we’d actually want to live in, we’re looking at about $650-700k in metro Portland. At today’s interest rates, PITI would TRIPLE for us, even with a couple hundred grand as a down payment.

It’s difficult to not feel very bitter about this. We are two highly educated people making a good living but we feel like we’re just locked into this life where we don’t want to live. I cannot imagine how people making median income or less are feeling.

Now, even if both of our kids aged out of daycare and we magically had another $2500 extra every month we wouldn’t want to pay $4500 per month for a mortgage. This just feels so stupid. How can prices stay high when people can’t afford to buy? WTF gives? How could this market realistically stay this way at 7+ percent?

My gf and I bought a townhouse in Sellwood in 2016, refinanced it in 2020. Id probably rent at the moment had I just moved here. 7 percent sounds high but we hit that in the mid 2000s too. If I were single and rates were lower, there are still some ok condos around. Mountain Park in LO, older buildings up in NW or studio in early 2000s buildings.

[subterranean]

It is an invalid comparison to look at past interest rates, even the much higher rates of the 70s, because the median-price-to-median-income ratio has never been as high as it has been in the past year or so.

If interest rates are high and housing is relatively cheap, prices can still be affordable. And while a huge percentage of homeowners currently have very low interest rates, the current situation is absolutely fucking dire for non-homeowners. Personally, I feel like if we do not have an interest rate reduction of 2 points or more in the next 2 years, we're going to see a major shift in prices as people's desire or tolerance to stay put, wanes.

Here's a telling quote from an article sourcing 1960-2000 Decennial Censuses and 2008, 2010 and 2017 American Community Surveys:

The West: Where the American Dream goes to die
In 1960, the price-to-income ratio for Western states was 2.1, but by 2017 it increased to 4.9. While median home prices increased by 195% in the West, median household income only increased by 26% since the 1960s. This means the growth rate of home prices is 7.5 times more than the growth rate of household income, making the Western region the least affordable region in the U.S. The average real estate commission fee in this areas ends up being substantially higher than any other regional housing market.

The price-to-income ratio in Portland as of 2021 was 7.3. When taken at a 7% interest rate, the monthly cost of housing for first-time homebuyers has literally never been higher. This is also driving up rents pretty dramatically. Beaverton, OR for example saw a 17.3% rent increase year-over-year.

The entire West Coast is currently experiencing a housing affordability crisis worse than it ever has, which is the primary reason for homelessness and certain cities seeing decreases in population, sometimes for the first time ever.

This shit is not normal. Just because elder millennials and older generations may have locked in interest rates and can tuck their heads safely in the sand doesn't mean a drastic change in pricing isn't coming if we don't dramatically increase supply and decrease interest rates.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by subterranean

It is an invalid comparison to look at past interest rates, even the much higher rates of the 70s, because the median-price-to-median-income ratio has never been as high as it has been in the past year or so.

If interest rates are high and housing is relatively cheap, prices can still be affordable. And while a huge percentage of homeowners currently have very low interest rates, the current situation is absolutely fucking dire for non-homeowners. Personally, I feel like if we do not have an interest rate reduction of 2 points or more in the next 2 years, we're going to see a major shift in prices as people's desire or tolerance to stay put, wanes.

Here's a telling quote from an article sourcing 1960-2000 Decennial Censuses and 2008, 2010 and 2017 American Community Surveys:



The price-to-income ratio in Portland as of 2021 was 7.3. When taken at a 7% interest rate, the monthly cost of housing for first-time homebuyers has literally never been higher. This is also driving up rents pretty dramatically. Beaverton, OR for example saw a 17.3% rent increase year-over-year.

The entire West Coast is currently experiencing a housing affordability crisis worse than it ever has, which is the primary reason for homelessness and certain cities seeing decreases in population, sometimes for the first time ever.

This shit is not normal. Just because elder millennials and older generations may have locked in interest rates and can tuck their heads safely in the sand doesn't mean a drastic change in pricing isn't coming if we don't dramatically increase supply and decrease interest rates.

We'll definitely see some kind of correction. In a way I think we already are. Prices in Portland are starting to stagnate. I wish I could find the article but it described the life cycle of expensive coastal markets and surmised at a certain migration/price threshold, city basically stopped growing meaningfully. Im not saying Portland has topped out but its definitely lost the pre 2010 steam. I think we're about to see a urbanist type renaissance out on the burbs tho. Been to Beaverton recently? Its actually got night life and restaurants now.

Its not just Portland tho. I grew up in Michigan too. Ever been to Dexter? That place was pretty run down in the 80s and 90s. Now its just as expensive there as it is here. You can't go home again!

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

I think we're about to see a urbanist type renaissance out on the burbs tho. Been to Beaverton recently? Its actually got night life and restaurants now.

Indeed I have. Downtown Beaverton is feeling more and more like a Portland neighborhood these days.

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Its not just Portland tho. I grew up in Michigan too. Ever been to Dexter? That place was pretty run down in the 80s and 90s. Now its just as expensive there as it is here. You can't go home again!

Ann Arbor and Traverse City areas are their own animals and not indicative of Michigan as a whole.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by edale

Some of you wouldn't know Victorian character if it hit you in the face! Come on, definitely no McMansions in this Civil War era streetscape!

Seriously, though, I do love how Metro Detroit has so many pleasant suburban downtowns. Downtown Northville looks very nice.

I'm always surprised at how rough the roads look in Michigan, even in relatively upscale neighbourhoods with large homes.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by edale

Some of you wouldn't know Victorian character if it hit you in the face! Come on, definitely no McMansions in this Civil War era streetscape!

That's Northville Township, which is basically entirely sprawl.

The city of Northville is one of the oldest settlements in MI, and is very historic, with pretty significant pre Civil War remnants, which is rare for the Upper Midwest. There might be some McMansonish teardowns here and there or on the municipal fringe, but most of the city is protected and historic.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I'm always surprised at how rough the roads look in Michigan, even in relatively upscale neighbourhoods with large homes.

And the nearest main road probably looks like the surface of the moon. Especially in early spring...

[(four 0 four)]

A few weeks ago, Elton John listed his Atlanta condo for sale.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...=srp-list-card
Realtor.com

13,330 sf for just under $5M. This seems like a good deal for the size and quality of the materials although the $7,851 monthly fee and $63,800 annual taxes are why I'm personally not interested.

[subterranean]

Why on God’s name did Elton John ever own a condo in Atlanta?

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I'm always surprised at how rough the roads look in Michigan, even in relatively upscale neighbourhoods with large homes.

Because for some reason they love that chintzy black asphalt that works ok down south but the moment it freezes up north it starts to crack.

[(four 0 four)]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Why on God’s name did Elton John ever own a condo in Atlanta?

From Mansion Global:
Elton John fell in love with Atlanta in the early 1990s.

He was just out of rehab at the time, and dating someone from the area, the superstar musician said in a phone interview. In the Georgia city, he found warm people and supportive recovery facilities, such as the Triangle Club, which he attended nearly every day for a period.

“The only people I knew were real people, who had normal jobs,” said the 76-year-old English singer, who is famous for hits such as “I’m Still Standing,” “Rocket Man” and “Candle in the Wind.” “The city adopted me and I adopted it.”

He kept it for over 30 years as a home base when he toured the North America.

[subterranean]

That's pretty cool. Thanks.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Because for some reason they love that chintzy black asphalt that works ok down south but the moment it freezes up north it starts to crack.

They do a lot of weird stuff in Michigan. It's basically an island. It's amazing how different it is than Ohio, pretty much from the moment you cross the border (although Toledo is a pretty gnarly preview).

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

They do a lot of weird stuff in Michigan. It's basically an island. It's amazing how different it is than Ohio, pretty much from the moment you cross the border (although Toledo is a pretty gnarly preview).

She's fixing the damn roads, so they've finally started rebuilding I-75 between Toledo and Detroit. I-75 just north of the MI/OH border must be one of the worst kept roads in the entire country. I imagine that the Oregon trail offered a smoother ride. That's what happens when you allow thousands of overweight 18 wheelers to speed through at 80 MPH everyday and not make them pay to use it.