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  #201  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2018, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I can confirm that that sentiment exists among all francophone groups living outside Quebec. It's kind of a complex relationship though, as especially for the groups west of the Ottawa River, they wouldn't exist (and perhaps/arguably could not exist) without Quebec.
This is the typical Québecois point of view. Franco-Ontariens are perhaps far more reserved than their Québecois counterparts, in part due to the Ottawa culture, but we have been there since before Québec existed. We used to all be French Canadians, until Québec snubbed the rest of the colony it was separated from by a meaningless border. Unlike the Québecois, we are still French Canadians, probably the only group that still, correctly, identifies themselves as French Canadians. We live on not because of Québec, but in spite of it.
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  #202  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2018, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
This is the typical Québecois point of view. Franco-Ontariens are perhaps far more reserved than their Québecois counterparts, in part due to the Ottawa culture, but we have been there since before Québec existed. We used to all be French Canadians, until Québec snubbed the rest of the colony it was separated from by a meaningless border. Unlike the Québecois, we are still French Canadians, probably the only group that still, correctly, identifies themselves as French Canadians. We live on not because of Québec, but in spite of it.
I am aware of all of the history - old and recent. I was born, raised and educated outside Quebec, and a clear majority of my family members are francophones living outside Quebec. This is true of my wife as well who is as Franco-Ontarian as they come. I spent 20-25 years of my life living in Ontario as a Franco-Ontarian.

I know that Québécois can be insensitive or worse to francophones in other provinces, but as a kid and teen in the 70s and 80s I also saw the amount of stuff available to francophones in their language markedly increase almost by ricochet as Canada's public and private sectors scrambled to deal with the new realities of an increasingly feisty and edgy Quebec: stuff like signage, literature, catalogues, toys, toll-free lines, monthly statements, TV and radio services, etc.

I also attended no less than two francophone schools in very predominantly anglophone cities that were built precisely because at the height of the first separatism/unity/referendum crisis the federal government pressured the province I lived in to fess up to its obligations for francophone schooling ("help us out guys!") to show the Québécois that we weren't that badly treated after all. (Plus they wanted federal goodies too... long story anyway. But we did get our schools.)
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  #203  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2018, 9:00 PM
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@Acajack Language divide is still a serious, and downright dangerous challenge anyway.

See what's happening over Catalonia. Their nationalist/separatist feeling has only grown stronger and worse, obnoxious ever since their province was officially bilingual, Catalan and Castilian.

The regional language gradually took over Spanish, everywhere including at school and in colleges, and now lots of them are completely brainwashed by some stupid imaginary persecution myth, as if Spain had always been ruled by Franco. That is a mere "éhonté" lie. Spain has been one of the most decentralized country in Europe already. Far far more than France would ever be, for example.
Besides, to my knowledge, the Catalans never actually faced anything like the real exaction and deportation that some French Canadians were the victims of in the past.

So when some Corsicans require bilingualism over their island, and insist for it, we're like wondering whether that wouldn't eventually mess up the feeling of unity in our country.

However, it works fine over the French Basque country. Much of the signage is now bilingual over there (Basque and French). They do speak some Basque out there, but the French Basque are still glad to be French.

And of course, there is Switzerland, the most solid multilingual confederation worldwide, but then, not everyone is the Swiss, and certainly not the Canadians.

I assume there's some particular problem with Spain and some provinces of Italy here, like their economy may not work as efficiently as their citizens would expect it, given the relative historic prestige of their countries.

Nevertheless, beware of language divide. It is definitely a huge challenge for any country where several languages are traditionally spoken.
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  #204  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2018, 9:27 PM
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The worst example is of course Belgium where a Walloon could more easily move to adjacent Germany than the northern half of his own country. Divicivism at its worst.
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  #205  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2018, 9:37 PM
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The worst example is of course Belgium where a Walloon could more easily move to adjacent Germany than the northern half of his own country. Divicivism at its worst.
The disincentives I am aware of in Flanders would be stuff like language tests to show you know some Flemish or signed affidavits that you won't ever demand services in French, aimed at people who want access to subsidized housing or who want to buy properties in Flemish communities.

I don't suppose there are language tests of any kind if you move to Germany from Wallonia, and the idea of demanding public services in French in Germany is kind of moot since there aren't really any offered and (contrary to Flanders) relatively few people including public servants in Germany speak French as a second language anyway.

Any other restrictions in Flanders/Belgium?
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  #206  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2018, 10:45 PM
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The Flemish are being a bit harsh. Fiercely anti-Walloon because of historic reasons, but they actually like us Frenchies. They have a problem with the Walloon exclusively.

When Wallonia was a thriving industry and Flanders was struggling, the Walloon made the terrible mistake to despise them. Stupid, short-sighted scornful things like - ha, we can speak Fr and you're nothing to us...
Now the situation is the total opposite. Flanders is wealthy (and deserves to be so, cause they are good at making stuff), and Wallonia's struggling. So, they're simply having their revenge.

But this is a historic Belgian issue proper. Again, the Flemish like the French. We're welcome over there. And they're hugely in favor of the European Union, their region having suffered very much from pan-European wars through the ages.

There's no way Wallonia ever becomes a region of France anyway. I for one would oppose it.
Lol, the bastards are requiring more subsidies than we French can afford to restore their past luster.
To everyone their own problem, eh.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2018, 12:44 AM
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What do the Anglo-Montrealers or Anglo-Quebeckers (or the ones that remain at least) think of the "Québécois" label for themselves?
I've been dating an Anglo-Quebecker for 3.5 years and we rarely discuss such things (we don't need to, I guess; we did once, some two years ago, and I stopped because I didn't want us to fight)... but now you're having me wondering if she would find the Québécois label appropriate for herself. I'd say odds are 50/50. I know for a fact that she and everyone in her family would say they're "Canadian" in a heartbeat, while I would rather say "Québécois" for myself if asked.
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