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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
In all fairness, Dante, Andrea has a pretty good point. While I certainly can't imagine the city without the Connector, I definitely think the quality and the urbanity of the central city would improve dramatically were it to be removed (and replaced elsewhere, of course). Sure, she gets passionate about it, but what's the big deal? Currently, all you're doing is provoking argument for the sake of argument, and turning an otherwise interesting discussion into an ad hominum attack on a well-educated Atlanta native who wants her city to be a better place.
No way. If it appeared that way, no I'm not trying to inflame. I just don't appreciate off-base accusations. I think she makes a good point too, but I don't like her implying that I'm "invested in maintaining the status quo and are extremely defensive about anything that they fear might change the connector."

To be honest, I'm also somewhat tired of the argument repeating itself over and over again. There is an entire thread just for it and yet she wants to "keep the connector problem on the front burner." She's free to do and say what she pleases of course, but I'm not sure the discussion can really maintain itself at the forefront of everyone's mind indefinitely.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 4:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
In all fairness, Dante, Andrea has a pretty good point. While I certainly can't imagine the city without the Connector, I definitely think the quality and the urbanity of the central city would improve dramatically were it to be removed (and replaced elsewhere, of course).
I have to disagree with you on that. First of all I would like to know how you define central city. Without the connector, I am afraid there would be no Georgia Dome, Philips Arena, Georgia Aquarium or relocation of World of Coca-cola in downtown area. Visitors are not limited to intowners. Without the connector, subburbaners have no ways to get into town under today's condition. If you take all these away, what's left? There would be no midtown either. Where ever is the connector moved to, all facilities will have to follow. So the urbanity and connector go hand by hand. They are not separable. Too bad, but it's the fact. We are in car driving era until we can't afford driving cars. Driving cars is superb over any other means of transportion disregaring traffic jam. It gives you freedom, privacy, confort and efficiency. Downtown connector won't go anywhere. When it goes, the central city will go too.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 5:04 AM
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Downtown areas across the country exist without freeways slicing through the middle of them - Atlanta would be no different. Yes, people in the suburbs do need access to the city, but it could just as easily come 1/2 mile, 2 miles, or however far away from the downtown area.

From your previous posts (and the discussion that has already taken place about this) I know that I could never convince you of anything, so let's just move on. Any more discussion about the Connector should take place in its respective thread.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 5:06 AM
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agreed, lets talk about the topic at hand.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 8:10 AM
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As to my Aussie friends, they were mystified. They loved the river and they loved MARTA's $1.75 fare -- it's about $15 to ride the train from the airport to downtown Sydney. They were also impressed with the old Buckhead mansions and Grant Park. As to the rest of Atlanta, well, as we know, it's not exactly what you you'll find in some other cities. When I took them down Peachtree into downtown, they asked, "Could we see the central city area?" To which I replied, "Well, this is it." They didn't get it.

Had your friends never seen a central city or are they just mentally challenged? Or maybe you got confused and took them to Douglasville? I can hardly believe that being downtown on Peachtree St. isn't identifiable as a central city - especially Five Points or vicinity. Atlanta isn't exactly what you'll find in other cities...like which other cities and what exactly do you find there that Atlanta isn't/doesn't have? I tend to focus on the good things that Atlanta DOES have, and there are a lot of them.

Ya know, it's tiring to read the criticisms of Atlanta from outsiders, many of whom have never been here and simply jump on the easy targets that they read about. But it's even more of a concern when the pot shots and worn out "Atlanta isn't urban enough" crap comes from residents, and that's exactly where I think this is coming from. People in smaller/lesser cities than Atlanta (and there are MANY) would be and ARE amazed at the offerings of this city. If it's not good enough for you then try living in Montgomery, or Tulsa, or Toledo, etc...

Am I defensive? Yes, I am...and with good reason. If I were escorting friends around the city and they made sarcastic or rude comments like that one, the tour would be over. How about if you visit Sydney and criticize the city they are so proud of? I wonder what kind of defensive response you would get? Criticisms with a purpose are fine as are comments/questions seeking an actual answer. But a good visitor to a city keeps his catty comments and sharp criticisms to himself and enjoys the sights.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 8:24 AM
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all i can say is DAMN people, feelin a bit "testy" lately?
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
Am I defensive? Yes, I am...and with good reason. If I were escorting friends around the city and they made sarcastic or rude comments like that one, the tour would be over. How about if you visit Sydney and criticize the city they are so proud of? I wonder what kind of defensive response you would get? Criticisms with a purpose are fine as are comments/questions seeking an actual answer. But a good visitor to a city keeps his catty comments and sharp criticisms to himself and enjoys the sights.
Er, they weren't criticising Atlanta or being rude or sarcastic in the least. To the contrary, they went out of their way to praise our fair Southern town. And yes, I have visited them in Sydney and heard them voice a number of specific critiques of that city. I believe what threw them off is that in Sydney and many similar cities downtown is the center of business activity, shopping, street life, etc.

Although Sunbelt cities like Atlanta are different from the traditional urban model, that doesn't necessarily make us better or worse. We simply is what we is.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dante2308 View Post
[Y]our response. In fact it can't even be called a response. Its really more of a general ranting aimed at the world. Did you lose a loved on on that thing? Or maybe you are so knee-jerk about the issue that you need to dreg it up to keep yourself going.
Dante, everything I've said about this issue has been exceedingly civil, specific and factual. And I am hardly alone in my critique -- many astute, highly trained and concerned city dwellers, both here and elsewhere, find old style suburban freeways less than optimal for central cities.

That you view my comments as a "general rant against the world" or that you'd suggest that I've lost a loved one or need to "dreg it up to keep myself going" reveals a lot about your attitude toward this highway.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 5:49 PM
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Andrea I have a question for you, or anyone else who can answer, but you specifically. When was it said that the Beltline would take a 100 years to complete.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
Dante, everything I've said about this issue has been exceedingly civil, specific and factual. And I am hardly alone in my critique -- many astute, highly trained and concerned city dwellers, both here and elsewhere, find old style suburban freeways less than optimal for central cities.

That you view my comments as a "general rant against the world" or that you'd suggest that I've lost a loved one or need to "dreg it up to keep myself going" reveals a lot about your attitude toward this highway.
No it doesn't reveal my attitude about the highway. You really lost track there and I really don't know how to bring you back aboard. Start by taking everything in context please. I haven't said a thing about the highway since your thread died and what I did say wasn't that the central city should have highways running through it. If I revealed anything, it would have been my attitude towards your obsession with the highway.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by A-town View Post
Andrea I have a question for you, or anyone else who can answer, but you specifically. When was it said that the Beltline would take a 100 years to complete.
Its supposed to be completed in 25 years. The 100 year figure was pure pessimism. They actually have 200 million to start the Beltline today and the have acquired hundreds of acres as yet. Developments are even being planned and built way in advance.
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Last edited by dante2308; Apr 28, 2007 at 5:20 AM.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 9:19 PM
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Why do discussions about differing opinions turn into arguments about the argument rather than the actual opinions?

A discussion of the merits of both sides would be much more productive.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 3:25 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up Dante, 25 years sound right.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Creech View Post
Even as a frequent Atlanta poster - I have to agree.

We do get way too many Atlanta posts going, a lot of them not even on particular blockbuster projects, or areas, but just general speculation and theoretical questions, quality-of-life, etc. A lot of those could probably more appriately be put under the general discussion Atlanta Thread.

Then there's the Atlanta Project Thread for general construction items.

Then aside from some larger blockbluster items, like Atlantic Station or MARTA/Transit we do seem to have a lot of needless threads.
That's what local forums (Atlanta Metroscape) are for.

You don't have to worry about things like this. You can make a thread like this, or the others you mention. They won't be crammed into one thread (like the Atlanta Discussion thread, or Atlanta Project thread).

Last edited by Trae; Apr 28, 2007 at 3:58 PM.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 28, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
Had your friends never seen a central city or are they just mentally challenged? Or maybe you got confused and took them to Douglasville? I can hardly believe that being downtown on Peachtree St. isn't identifiable as a central city - especially Five Points or vicinity. Atlanta isn't exactly what you'll find in other cities...like which other cities and what exactly do you find there that Atlanta isn't/doesn't have? I tend to focus on the good things that Atlanta DOES have, and there are a lot of them.

Ya know, it's tiring to read the criticisms of Atlanta from outsiders, many of whom have never been here and simply jump on the easy targets that they read about. But it's even more of a concern when the pot shots and worn out "Atlanta isn't urban enough" crap comes from residents, and that's exactly where I think this is coming from. People in smaller/lesser cities than Atlanta (and there are MANY) would be and ARE amazed at the offerings of this city. If it's not good enough for you then try living in Montgomery, or Tulsa, or Toledo, etc...

Am I defensive? Yes, I am...and with good reason. If I were escorting friends around the city and they made sarcastic or rude comments like that one, the tour would be over. How about if you visit Sydney and criticize the city they are so proud of? I wonder what kind of defensive response you would get? Criticisms with a purpose are fine as are comments/questions seeking an actual answer. But a good visitor to a city keeps his catty comments and sharp criticisms to himself and enjoys the sights.
I have watched Atlanta rise for the past few decades and while it is a big city with an urban core, it unfortunately seems to have forgotten its Sourthern roots and has become rather souless. My wife just got back from ATL and her impression was it was just like any other big concrete city. Not sure what she expected, but she was dissappointed at the hardness of downtown with so little greenery in the public spaces and even in Olympic Plaza. Just an opinion and not meant to be derogotory to ATL.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 28, 2007, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by EXbubba View Post
I have watched Atlanta rise for the past few decades and while it is a big city with an urban core, it unfortunately seems to have forgotten its Sourthern roots and has become rather souless. My wife just got back from ATL and her impression was it was just like any other big concrete city. Not sure what she expected, but she was dissappointed at the hardness of downtown with so little greenery in the public spaces and even in Olympic Plaza. Just an opinion and not meant to be derogotory to ATL.
Well everyone is entitled to there opinion but there's a lot more to ATL than downtown and it's very short-sighted to conclude a city has forgotten its roots and become souless from a short visit to a small section of the city.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 28, 2007, 4:44 PM
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See, for some people Atlanta is too urban, for some not urban enough.
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  #38  
Old Posted May 28, 2007, 5:30 PM
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What should southern roots look like? IMO, big city is big city. It means density and high rises, i.e., concrete constructions. It's not a laid back place.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 28, 2007, 7:53 PM
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Atlanta is a huge and diverse place. Downtown is a complete different animal than Midtown which is on a tangent from Decatur which is a completely different world than Alpharetta which is the opposite of College Park. Take your friends around town a little more next time. Downtown doesn't really represent Atlanta very well.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 30, 2007, 12:57 AM
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Downtown may not represent Atlanta very well, but it should. I often feel that when I visit a new city, if I am not impressed by the heart/core (Downtown), then there's not much to excite me about what may lie outside that central zone. In those instances, I walk away feeling indifferent about the city, at best. Some very good things are happening in Downtown ATL, and I hope it continues, along with more and more street life and residents, because that will lead to more visitors (and even ATL suburanites) siding favorably with their experience. I also think that in a few more years, Downtown & Midtown will grow together, and the whole stretch will feed on that union, creating a new far more vibrant center.

I know there are lots of cities that don't have an interesting or impressive core, but there are plenty that do, both large and small.

Last edited by ATLonthebrain; May 30, 2007 at 1:16 AM.
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