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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 3:54 PM
ATLaffinity ATLaffinity is offline
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Does anyone know if there are ANY plans for even the tiniest pocket park in Midtown?

Midtown has ZERO parks. ZERO. I know Piedmont Park is great but you can't walk 2 miles to it with your family.

Without pocket parks, Midtown is never going to "mature" and housing values will never improve.

Families care A LOT more than singles about neighborhoods. Right now, singles are going to live in Midtown until they have kids and then they are forced to move.

It just kind of blew my mind when i looked at a map and there is literally not an inch of green in Midtown.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 4:46 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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IMO greenspace is OVERRATED. Proof of that is the fact that Midtown is considered to have "not an inch of green " when there's a patch of grass every other block.















I do think the streetscape could be upgraded but what Midtown needs is dense, urban, inviting architecture built up to the street. But again thats just my opinion.

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Sep 21, 2008 at 5:49 PM.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2008, 4:55 PM
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I think Piedmont Park is sufficiently large to accommodate Midtown. The area is not very large to begin with and even in the suburbs, parks are a drive away. The greenspaces in Midtown admittedly are rare though. The government seems to ignore the need to buy up land for parks all together.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 12:23 AM
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I think it's interesting that for most all the examples of "green space" you show in midtown - if you were to layout a picnic cloth, layout to get some sun, or set up a volleyball net - you'd be promptly asked to leave.

While we all would like dense urban development here, that also just makes parkland that much more precious. The city should be banking parkspace and developing it now while it's still relatively inexpensive land. If you wait until the whole area is dense and developed it will never happen.

Two places in Midtown I'd always thought would be great for parks:

1) the block west of the Bilmore between W. P'tree and Spring, it's bounded on one side by the Biltmore, one by restaurants and shops, one by condos, and one by Technology Square - what a perfect spot for a park. Go ahed and throw a couple of layers of parking underneath it while you're at it. (Georgia Tech might even help develop it.)

2) The other is the block just west of the Southern Bell/ATT tower, again between W. P'tree and Spring. On one side you have ATT&T, one side the big churge there, one side the big parking lot of the Varsity (ripe for a highrise development), and the other that nasty AT&T parking deck. (Hit AT&T up as a sponsor.) In fact this block is sooo large, you could easily put condo towers along two sides and leave room for a nice park down the middle (see pic.)

Both could feature community ammenities, a small band shell for lunch concerts, large chess sets, small dog park, maybe a licensed restaurant on a small lake/fountain, public artwork.

Eventually Midtown is going to be all high-rises and urban enough for even the most jaded. Let's get some parks in place now before it's too late.


Last edited by Chris Creech; Sep 22, 2008 at 12:44 AM.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 2:38 AM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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I think a couple of well designed small parks would be awesome. My point is that a few of places to picnic scattered about are not going to make Midtown a great place nearly as much as urban development done "right".

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Sep 22, 2008 at 2:54 AM.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
I think a couple of well designed small parks would be awesome. My point is that a few of places to picnic scattered about are not going to make Midtown a great place nearly as much as urban development done "right".
count me as one who believes that "urban development done right" should by design, code, city will or developer will, feature frequent and regular small parks within the grid.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 4:39 PM
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chris, excellent points. you made the case better than i ever could.

is there any master plan that requires pocket parks?

whose bell do I ring about the need for pocket parks?

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Originally Posted by Chris Creech View Post

Eventually Midtown is going to be all high-rises and urban enough for even the most jaded. Let's get some parks in place now before it's too late.

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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 11:33 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Originally Posted by atl2phx View Post
count me as one who believes that "urban development done right" should by design, code, city will or developer will, feature frequent and regular small parks within the grid.
If "urban development done right" does include pocket parks, thats fantastic. But IMO with or without a few patches of grass, its the urban design that matters most.

By the way, the Peachtree Streetcar proposal did include $110 million for pocket parks about every 1/2 mile.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 8:41 AM
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As Inspiration:

Here's the site for the New York Park Restoration Project. It was founded years ago by Bette Middler of all people. I have to give her major props for her work. But there's several things on the web site about the importance of parks and green space and trees in urban environments. She's bought dozens of vacant neglected properties in New York City and had them redeveloped into useful community driven pocket parks. She's also behind the drive to plant a million trees in NYC.

http://www.nyrp.org/

Plus I certainly would go to a park opening if it featured Bette Midler and an interpretive performance art piece on tree planting by the Blue Man Group. How New York is that?

Again, I think we kinda miss the point though, it seems that the argument always gets down to a) open green space, parks, community building areas, OR b) dense urban developments - they shouldn't really conflict. They actually compliment each other. Small community parks, local pocket parks, all provide a needed breathing space and "living room" to meet you neighbors.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 1:40 PM
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I love public spaces (as opposed to plots of grass) and think they are essential to urban life. It's hard to imagine New York without Bryant Park, Philadelphia without Rittenhouse Square, Savannah without its squares or New Haven without the Green.

Piedmont Park is a phenomenal asset to the city but it's a little too "over there" to fulfill Midtown's need for public space.

Chris, great link. Thank you!
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 1:52 PM
ATLaffinity ATLaffinity is offline
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
But IMO with or without a few patches of grass, its the urban design that matters most.
.
but pocket parks ARE "urban design".

you are never going to have this world class city everyone envisions if people leave midtown/downtown when they turn 30. we don't have to be savannah but it's shocking that we have no parks/playgrounds in midtown.
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ATLaffinity View Post
but pocket parks ARE "urban design".

you are never going to have this world class city everyone envisions if people leave midtown/downtown when they turn 30. we don't have to be savannah but it's shocking that we have no parks/playgrounds in midtown.
thank you. i agree 100%. particularly when one of our greatest assets is the 'green' nature of the city due to the everpresent canopy of trees. it would be an oversight to let midtown develop without an eye toward including frequent, visible and accessible 'public' greenspace.

atlanta is still in the bottom half of major us cities in terms of % land dedicated to public parks. such a low ranking is all the more reason focus on more such spaces, particularly in rapidly growing urban corridors such as midtown and buckhead.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 8:16 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Originally Posted by ATLaffinity View Post
but pocket parks ARE "urban design".

you are never going to have this world class city everyone envisions if people leave midtown/downtown when they turn 30. we don't have to be savannah but it's shocking that we have no parks/playgrounds in midtown.
I've actually been thinking of cities that I've been to and consider to be great cities and other than Savannah I honestly can't recall if any of them even has pocket parks.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 8:25 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Creech View Post
As Inspiration:

Here's the site for the New York Park Restoration Project. It was founded years ago by Bette Middler of all people. I have to give her major props for her work. But there's several things on the web site about the importance of parks and green space and trees in urban environments. She's bought dozens of vacant neglected properties in New York City and had them redeveloped into useful community driven pocket parks. She's also behind the drive to plant a million trees in NYC.

http://www.nyrp.org/

Plus I certainly would go to a park opening if it featured Bette Midler and an interpretive performance art piece on tree planting by the Blue Man Group. How New York is that?

Again, I think we kinda miss the point though, it seems that the argument always gets down to a) open green space, parks, community building areas, OR b) dense urban developments - they shouldn't really conflict. They actually compliment each other. Small community parks, local pocket parks, all provide a needed breathing space and "living room" to meet you neighbors.
Talk about missing the point. I have not at all agrued parks versus urban development. I've only said that its the good urban development (not just tall buildings) is the critical issue to Midtown becoming a great place not pocket parks.

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Sep 24, 2008 at 12:56 AM.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2008, 12:56 AM
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"Talk about missing the point. I have not at all agrued parks versus urban development. <<<< >>>> I've only said that its the good urban development is the critical to Midtown becoming a great place not pocket parks."
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2008, 2:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Creech View Post
I think it's interesting that for most all the examples of "green space" you show in midtown - if you were to layout a picnic cloth, layout to get some sun, or set up a volleyball net - you'd be promptly asked to leave.

While we all would like dense urban development here, that also just makes parkland that much more precious. The city should be banking parkspace and developing it now while it's still relatively inexpensive land. If you wait until the whole area is dense and developed it will never happen.

Two places in Midtown I'd always thought would be great for parks:
Sorry to detract, but both those park locations are very close to Georgia's Tech's area which is very much dotted with usable greenspace. I would much prefer that the new greenspace areas be in more residential areas than your At&t/BellSouth location and in more desperate locations than your Tech Square parking lot location.

I suggest West Peachtree and Spring Street locations north of 10th Street and below 17th Street.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2008, 5:25 AM
GTviajero81 GTviajero81 is offline
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Also there was an article in The Technique (GT's student newspaper) which specifically mentioned that Georgia Tech is very near to running out of space to build anything and has essentially reached its eastern border (Spring Street). Therefore one may infer that the mid-rise building and parking lot and in the area bounded by 5th, Spring, and W. P'tree (not including the lofts on the Abercrombie border) would be built up into usable space for the Institute and not a pocket park.

And what is this about wanting to set out a picnic in a park and the horror of having to go ALL the way to Piedmont Park? As someone who grew up in the NYC ( I mention this as NYC was cited a few times as a place with urban pocket parks), these neighbourhood parks did NOT have picnic areas and the like. There were swings, see-saws, basketball courts, tennis courts, and monkey-bars. The ground was generally concrete or cobblestone. What made them parks in NYC-eyes were the presence of large trees. If we ever felt a need to picnic it was considered a treat to go to the larger parks, i.e. Central, Prospect, Van Cortlandt, Flushing Meadows, among others. If you live in midtown and don't want to go to Piedmont then go to Georgia Tech! There is plenty of greenspace there and if one is respectable acting and looking (i.e., not using the grounds of the Institute as one's personal toilet) then one can relax there to one's content. There is Yellowjacket Park in the centre of the school that provides plenty of skyline views and sunshine as well as at least two acres or so of grassy field.

I argue that due to the climate and topography of the areas along Peachtree Street that we ought to focus on REDUCING the spacing between venues. Note well that Peachtree is on a ridge and therefore nearly all roads lead UP to P'tree....parks are great but I fear that they really wouldn't be used as often as we would like to think. Another reason as to why not? We have not, nor is it likely that we will ever reach the critical mass necessary for the making such urban greenspaces actually worth the trouble. Atlanta is a interesting animal in the sense that although we lack natural boundaries, we still have a freeway on the west side (our concrete river), a university, a globally-known studio and company HQ and Atlantic Station (all going no where anytime soon), a freeway on the north (dividing Midtown and Brookwood), the city's major park and botanical gardens,a historic district, and Freedom Parkway ( a bit of a stretch but who knows in the future?) on the east side, and a freeway on the south side. These delineated area is quite walkable and should be the focus of intense development. With the development of the park in the Old 4th Ward area and along the Beltline this should suffice for parks in the sense of what was mentioned earlier: places for picnic-ing, etc.

Personally one way that we could preserve the canopy within the city centre is to remake the major thoroughfares with tree-lined medians, and to get wild for a moment, palm tree-lined! Certain palms do quite well here (reference many properties in the Druid Hills/Lake Claire/Candler Park which have a lovely amount of palms) and would leave a mark in the mind of a winter-weary visitor to our city in the winter. Palm trees automatically place the idea of vacation spot in many people's minds...we ought to capitalise on that!

Ok enough of the wild dreams now.
Cheers.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2008, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTviajero81 View Post
Also there was an article in The Technique (GT's student newspaper) which specifically mentioned that Georgia Tech is very near to running out of space to build anything and has essentially reached its eastern border (Spring Street). Therefore one may infer that the mid-rise building and parking lot and in the area bounded by 5th, Spring, and W. P'tree (not including the lofts on the Abercrombie border) would be built up into usable space for the Institute and not a pocket park.
At one point wasn't this lot going to be built on for some private middle or high school?

Quote:
Personally one way that we could preserve the canopy within the city centre is to remake the major thoroughfares with tree-lined medians, and to get wild for a moment, palm tree-lined! Certain palms do quite well here (reference many properties in the Druid Hills/Lake Claire/Candler Park which have a lovely amount of palms) and would leave a mark in the mind of a winter-weary visitor to our city in the winter. Palm trees automatically place the idea of vacation spot in many people's minds...we ought to capitalise on that!
My favorite idea of the month!! I fully endorse this plan as long as we can find palms that grow tall and don't look too ratty. Now where to put them? A median in W. Peachtree when it's changed to two way and the new medians on Peachtree (around 15th St and by Terminus) come to mind immediately.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2008, 3:30 PM
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PLEASE, no palm trees! Atlanta has so many beautiful native trees that wouldn't look so out of place. Besides, as such a heat island we need more shade trees
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2008, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GTviajero81 View Post
There were swings, see-saws, basketball courts, tennis courts, and monkey-bars.
all things for children which makes high-rise living possible for families.

plus we don't have convenient subway stops like NYC. I can't get on the 5th/Spring MARTA and take the purple line to 10th/Monroe.

i heard mention once of Kim King Associates plans for a park in the land across from The Cheetah. Not sure if they still own that property.
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