HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southeast > Atlanta


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 2:55 AM
Libertarian's Avatar
Libertarian Libertarian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,430
Never seen a grocery store charge parking but this may be the first, because if free parking is on offer then there will be "customers" who park and depart for other nearby venues. It must require human surveillance and that ain't cheap. Is any such free parking available downtown and how do they handle it? Maybe with sales receipt and time of purchase on departure? Seems complicated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 11:46 AM
trainiac's Avatar
trainiac trainiac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta - Grove Park
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
Never seen a grocery store charge parking but this may be the first, because if free parking is on offer then there will be "customers" who park and depart for other nearby venues. It must require human surveillance and that ain't cheap. Is any such free parking available downtown and how do they handle it? Maybe with sales receipt and time of purchase on departure? Seems complicated.
The Publix at Atlantic Station has been in shared payed parking for years. The Publix at 8th St shares a deck but as-of-yet at no charge. Funny, the one at 8th St is the one I always use when it's raining. Pretty handy to be covered from store to car even though it's a smaller Publix.

With that said, I don't remember hearing how the New Murder Kroger is planning to handle the situation.
__________________
Atlanta history blog
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 1:31 PM
Libertarian's Avatar
Libertarian Libertarian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,430
Atlantic Station is different because if you go to AS you are a captive audience of only their merchants and businesses. Not so with downtown!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 2:42 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,553
That's a great point. At Atlantic Station the first 2 hours are free and offers validation for the movie theater for additional time. Underground would have to have a validation system for shopping at the complex. But even with a validation system, if people are already paying 8$ a visit to park at Underground paying to park in the new spaces wouldn't really be a hindrance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 3:14 PM
Atlriser's Avatar
Atlriser Atlriser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta - Grant Park
Posts: 1,269
Considering I would be a customer for this new development as it would be less than a mile away from my home, I would like to see it built. Therefore, don't assume the residents of downtown don't want to see this built. Parking whatever I don't care. I've just tried to base my thoughts off facts and not emotions. The area is already a government node. Buses are BS for people trying to get to this area from Palmetto or Milton. Whether you like it or not these people MUST come to this 4 block area everyday for our government to function on all levels. Fulton County alone brings in over 1000 jurors every Monday from an area that's over 50 miles away North and South. That's just jurors for Fulton not counting all the other government functions. That's the reality of what occurs in those decks just on Monday mornings every week. Now what you do with parking I don't care. If I can't park to go buy my $175 of groceries every week I will go elsewhere and have to drive farther to Edgewood. That's the simple reality that most family's live period. When I need $20 worth of non frozen items I'll walk. It's simple logic. Can the retail survive with that family mentality....NO! The majority isn't always right but in this case logic and money dictate the need for further parking. Is 3500 to much. Considering I work in construction financing and for a commercial builder (not retail) I'd say it's a little high but standard and those numbers are the only way the project will work and the tenants will sign leases period. That's from proven numbers from developments that work in urban environments. I wish Atlanta had a subway stop every two blocks and I live where I do so I can walk, bike and use transit for most of my needs. Ive tried to strike a balance between idealism and reality that will move Atlanta toward a goal of not needing a car as my own family has gone from 2 cars to 1 over the last 5 years. Lose the emotion and extreme idealism if you don't, nothing will happen but stagnation. Compromise to make progress. Lord it's so all or nothing for some people and that's what happens when you have 2 sides that bicker and neither is completely right.

Sounds like Washington and Atlanta is so much better than that!
__________________
I live in my own little world but it's ok, they know me here!

The next time you are contemplating what the hell went wrong in your life, look in a mirror!

Last edited by Atlriser; Mar 23, 2017 at 3:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 3:51 PM
Atlriser's Avatar
Atlriser Atlriser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta - Grant Park
Posts: 1,269
A thought on visitors as you say. I must visit this area weekly for my job but I am the only individual in my company that lives inside Atlanta yet my company employees 30-40 people plus subs. Many of them have to come to this area from the surrounding suburbs because of the government offices their. These are people who make Atlanta what Atlanta is. I'm not suggesting the city must put up parking decks for the suburbs, but these coworkers come because they must and they make Atlanta whether you like them or not. They work and help build this metro area and live all around the actual city. They have no transit options just like the jurors in Palmetto or North Fulton. That's reality. Can we work on transit and move forward, yes! But if these people can't access the central government then the offices and jobs will move to where they can be acccessed which would take 1000's of jobs away from the underground area. Then no development will come. Some additional parking is needed without a doubt. As Turner Field is developed all those spaces must be replaced too. I walked by yesterday on my way into downtown and 2 lots were completely filled with lines for these people waiting to get to the underground area. If you push to hard, you'll get nothing including no additional transit because it want be needed as government moves more functions to south and north Fulton and the federal and state will start relocating too making Atlanta sprawl even more.
__________________
I live in my own little world but it's ok, they know me here!

The next time you are contemplating what the hell went wrong in your life, look in a mirror!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 10:03 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlriser View Post
Considering I would be a customer for this new development as it would be less than a mile away from my home, I would like to see it built. Therefore, don't assume the residents of downtown don't want to see this built. Parking whatever I don't care. I've just tried to base my thoughts off facts and not emotions. The area is already a government node. Buses are BS for people trying to get to this area from Palmetto or Milton. Whether you like it or not these people MUST come to this 4 block area everyday for our government to function on all levels. Fulton County alone brings in over 1000 jurors every Monday from an area that's over 50 miles away North and South. That's just jurors for Fulton not counting all the other government functions. That's the reality of what occurs in those decks just on Monday mornings every week. Now what you do with parking I don't care. If I can't park to go buy my $175 of groceries every week I will go elsewhere and have to drive farther to Edgewood. That's the simple reality that most family's live period. When I need $20 worth of non frozen items I'll walk. It's simple logic. Can the retail survive with that family mentality....NO! The majority isn't always right but in this case logic and money dictate the need for further parking. Is 3500 to much. Considering I work in construction financing and for a commercial builder (not retail) I'd say it's a little high but standard and those numbers are the only way the project will work and the tenants will sign leases period. That's from proven numbers from developments that work in urban environments. I wish Atlanta had a subway stop every two blocks and I live where I do so I can walk, bike and use transit for most of my needs. I've tried to strike a balance between idealism and reality that will move Atlanta toward a goal of not needing a car as my own family has gone from 2 cars to 1 over the last 5 years. Lose the emotion and extreme idealism if you don't, nothing will happen but stagnation. Compromise to make progress. Lord it's so all or nothing for some people and that's what happens when you have 2 sides that bicker and neither is completely right.

Sounds like Washington and Atlanta is so much better than that!
I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that my position is "all or nothing". I have not suggested a development with zero parking. For the record I am more anti this proposal than I am anti-parking. Atlanta is so heavily car-oriented that I believe that driving will have to become substantially more challenging for the culture to begin to change and therefore parking is of course necessary.

The reasons that I oppose this development are 1)we absolutely cannot say that this is the highest and best possible redevelopment for Underground because there was no open process to select a developer 2) I am opposed to a completely car oriented development transplanted into the historic heart of the city. My position is based on a desire for the best long term health of downtown. There is nothing emotional about this position and I certainly do not think its more based on emotion than "I would be a customer so I would like to see it built". The kind of development I would like to see downtown is neither extreme nor idealism but is in fact the norm around the world.


The parking for the courts and government offices is really a separate issue that I don't have the answer for. My point about visitors is only that downtown's urban fabric has been destroyed for decades with wide, fast roads and an abundance of parking so that people can drive in, out and through the city with ease and that we can no longer afford to build the city for visitors first.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 1:45 AM
arjay57 arjay57 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlriser View Post
A thought on visitors as you say. I must visit this area weekly for my job but I am the only individual in my company that lives inside Atlanta yet my company employees 30-40 people plus subs. Many of them have to come to this area from the surrounding suburbs because of the government offices their. These are people who make Atlanta what Atlanta is. I'm not suggesting the city must put up parking decks for the suburbs, but these coworkers come because they must and they make Atlanta whether you like them or not. They work and help build this metro area and live all around the actual city. They have no transit options just like the jurors in Palmetto or North Fulton. That's reality. Can we work on transit and move forward, yes! But if these people can't access the central government then the offices and jobs will move to where they can be acccessed which would take 1000's of jobs away from the underground area. Then no development will come. Some additional parking is needed without a doubt. As Turner Field is developed all those spaces must be replaced too. I walked by yesterday on my way into downtown and 2 lots were completely filled with lines for these people waiting to get to the underground area. If you push to hard, you'll get nothing including no additional transit because it want be needed as government moves more functions to south and north Fulton and the federal and state will start relocating too making Atlanta sprawl even more.
I totally share your feelings about the importance of suburban residents who commute into the city for work.

However, if downtown parking were not so abundant and cheap, would they consider parking at a MARTA station and riding the train to Five Points? I know it's a tricky issue because we used to have an office built on top of a MARTA station and it was very difficult to get our folks to take the train. They'd drive right by several stations even though we provided free MARTA passes. In hindsight I think we may have contributed to the problem by offering subsidized parking in the building deck.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2017, 1:18 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,553
Underground Atlanta deal lands financing from New York firm

Quote:
The long-awaited deal is expected to close as early as today.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/n...-from-new.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 11:29 AM
trainiac's Avatar
trainiac trainiac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta - Grove Park
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
Interesting. Ladder Capital and Gamma bought the Hurt Building too. That plus Underground is a pretty massive play for downtown Atlanta
__________________
Atlanta history blog
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2017, 12:24 PM
Martinman Martinman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,602
The sale of Underground has officially closed.

I was downtown yesterday and was reminded of the potential that downtown has as an urban neighborhood but also the horrible mistakes that exist in terms of development in the late 20th century. Here's hoping for the best case scenario possible with this development.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2017, 6:38 PM
Atlanta3000 Atlanta3000 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Buckhead
Posts: 2,763
Underground Parking @ The Underground Development

It has been brought to my attention from a person on this forum that wants to remain anonymous, the additional 1500 parking spaces are going to be underground parking.

Take a look a this thread to see my notes and try not to embarrass the "person" on this forum who did not realize WRS was planning expensive underground parking at the Underground project so they could have street level retail.

See Post #23
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=1#post7765863

Last edited by Atlanta3000; Apr 7, 2017 at 6:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2017, 9:48 PM
AtlantaMustang's Avatar
AtlantaMustang AtlantaMustang is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
Underground Parking @ The Underground Development

It has been brought to my attention from a person on this forum that wants to remain anonymous, the additional 1500 parking spaces are going to be underground parking.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=1#post7765863
Between these two posts, it's clear you don't know how to read a diagram. Have whatever opinions you want about whether there should be parking or not, but the facts are they are not showing the parking underground. It's shown in decks above the retail. Whatever your secret source is doesn't align with anything we've seen so far.
__________________
Raised in Atlanta, based in Shanghai
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2017, 10:25 PM
Atlanta3000 Atlanta3000 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Buckhead
Posts: 2,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang View Post
Between these two posts, it's clear you don't know how to read a diagram. Have whatever opinions you want about whether there should be parking or not, but the facts are they are not showing the parking underground. It's shown in decks above the retail. Whatever your secret source is doesn't align with anything we've seen so far.
Hey Johnny - Come - Lately, maybe you should learn to read diagrams. Those are EXISTING PARKING DECKS. No need to apologize, you clearly are "special" and that will suffice for now.

EXHIBIT A

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2017, 10:42 PM
AtlantaMustang's Avatar
AtlantaMustang AtlantaMustang is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
Hey Johnny - Come - Lately, maybe you should learn to read diagrams. Those are EXISTING PARKING DECKS. No need to apologize, you clearly are "special" and that will suffice for now.
The diagram you posted is a street level floor plan. This only shows one level, the street level.

Now look at this 3 dimensional diagram that shows multiple floors.



Now look at this nifty diagram I made so you can understand. Bottom right is a key. It shows which colors align to what programs in the original. Now see that the existing decks are only 2 decks (I put them in gray for you). New decks are the remainder inside of new buildings (I put them in red for you).



No need to apologize.
__________________
Raised in Atlanta, based in Shanghai
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 2:12 AM
Libertarian's Avatar
Libertarian Libertarian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,430
So Underground is being developed as a parking block with added amenities?
Hey, I'm just a troll. Even downtown doesn't need that much parking!
Parking is lucrative tho.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 1:46 AM
Atlanta3000 Atlanta3000 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Buckhead
Posts: 2,763
Little birdie told me Kroger is not grocer - it is Target.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 3:01 AM
Martinman Martinman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,602
At the end of the day, what's most important to me is not the kind of store they have but how it's designed. Target does have a history of urban stores so that is somewhat encouraging if it's true. I do think a Target would be a better fit than a mega Kroger.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 3:52 AM
Libertarian's Avatar
Libertarian Libertarian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,430
I don't think Target would be a good fit for the SODO demographic. To be brutally honest, a super Walmart would do gangbusters and encourage commuters and visitors to stop and shop when departing from Georgia State or the state and county buildings, prior to their embarking on Marta Five Points and other transportation alternatives. No brainer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 2:12 PM
Martinman Martinman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,602
I couldn't disagree more. For one, there is a Walmart less than 2 miles from Underground, 2 - Target would appeal to a broad spectrum of customers in all of Downtown not just the "SODO demographic". This would be great for GSU students as well as the other downtown residential population that is finally, gradually growing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southeast > Atlanta
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:07 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.