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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2017, 2:34 PM
montydawg montydawg is offline
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Amazon HQ2 bid

I thought I would start a thread as this may be getting a little stale for the general community. This New York Times article comes to an interesting conclusion, and Atlanta is hurt by one factor- I bet you can guess what it is!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...e.html?mcubz=1

I've also read that Georgia politicians, from Governor Deal to all the suburban politicians and senators, realize what 50,000 jobs will do for Georgia and the region in general, so everyone is on board with tax incentives and the like. Cobb and Gwinnett would get a boost in taxes with all the new high paid residents moving to town, even if the headquarters is located in the city. It's been suggested that over the next year, the political rhetoric by our more conservative politicians will be muted or even supportive of some of the 'liberal' ideas that Jeff Bezos is looking for, so we may see more broad transit support at the state level. I think this is an exciting prospect for the region.
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2017, 2:51 PM
montydawg montydawg is offline
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Just a note, in comparing Denver to Atlanta transit, Denver has 48 miles of light rail (serving 339,000 daily) and Atlanta has 48 miles of heavy rail (serving 432,000 daily). Where Denver has an advantage is it's new commuter rail system (opened last year), with 30 miles of track, and presumably it is still growing at this point. Denver also has a beautiful 'union station' that just opened in 2014.

If the Georgia politicians can get the MMPT rolling, with a line to Lovejoy (funding is already flowing) and Kennesaw (state owns the CSX track and we will be renegotiating track rights with CSX next year I believe) I think we have a chance of getting a respectable transit system lined up, with the addition of the Beltline light rail we already have funded and in the works.
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2017, 3:31 PM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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If my hometown of Detroit doesn't get this, I'm definitely going all in for Atlanta.

MARTA may not be perfect, but for Amazon's needs, I would say it's good enough. Many of their employees would likely want to live in downtown / midtown (which is seeing pretty good infill of urban living options), an area that's pretty well covered by the streetcar and MARTA lines.

Also, Atlanta has it's location in the eastern time zone and a relatively low COL (for a city its size) going for it over Denver.

Also, if they select Atlanta and land in South Downtown, it may be enough to finally kick off more rapid growth on the Southside of town (due to far less traffic and, in some cases, shorter commute times).
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 4:57 PM
ATLswede ATLswede is offline
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My gut says it will come down to Atlanta and Boston. The most important criteria are allegedly transit, proximity to quality higher education, cost of living, and availability of large tracts for development. Also, let's not forget that the whole point of this exercise is to give them an East Coast presence.

Boston's educational institutions, public transit, and cultural amenities probably make it the front runner (assuming they are willing to open their collective wallets). The only knocks against it would be cost of living, dinky airport, and cold weather.

Atlanta has a fairly big advantage in its airport. Its transit system is not extensive, but it at least has the bones of a solid system, it just needs expanding. And the educational institutions are quite good, even if they are not on the same level as Boston. I suspect Georgia will be willing to throw more money at Amazon and we have bigger parcels available, but I still think this thing is Boston's to lose. If they eff it up, we'll probably next in line.

Cost of living and availability of large contiguous parcels for development in a desirable area probably exclude Chicago, Philly and DC, even though their transit systems and educational institutions are top notch.

Lack of transit would all but disqualify Nashville and Charlotte, and TN does not have particularly good schools (though NC does).

Denver doesn't make the cut if the stated goal is to have an East Coast presence (it's a 3 hour flight, as opposed to 4.5 hours from Seattle). It also doesn't have the same level of educational institutions. No disrespect to CU, CSU, and University of Denver, but they pale in comparison to Boston (MIT, Harvard, UMass, Amherst +many other) and Atlanta (Emory, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, UGA + many others). Dallas also isn't exactly East Coast, it's transit is even weaker than Charlotte, and the educational institutions, while good, are not at the same level (yes, UT is a great school, but the combo of UT, SMU, and Texas A&M does not stack up IMO).

I have also gone ahead and written off the entire state of FL because I suspect Bezos is smart enough to realize that Miami is going to be largely under water in the next 30-50 years and there aren't really any other cities that have any of the other stated criteria.
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 5:03 PM
ATLswede ATLswede is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17 View Post
If my hometown of Detroit doesn't get this, I'm definitely going all in for Atlanta.

MARTA may not be perfect, but for Amazon's needs, I would say it's good enough. Many of their employees would likely want to live in downtown / midtown (which is seeing pretty good infill of urban living options), an area that's pretty well covered by the streetcar and MARTA lines.

Also, Atlanta has it's location in the eastern time zone and a relatively low COL (for a city its size) going for it over Denver.

Also, if they select Atlanta and land in South Downtown, it may be enough to finally kick off more rapid growth on the Southside of town (due to far less traffic and, in some cases, shorter commute times).
Detroit is an interesting Dark Horse (and Minneapolis probably should be on the list of Dark Horse candidates too). Clearly COL is attractive and there are great schools close by in UM, MSU and Chicago not too far away. The transit system is there and the city has "great bones" if that's not an offensive way to describe the plentiful and gorgeous historic (but now dilapidated) buildings. I wonder if Detroit and Michigan, only a few years removed from bankruptcy, are going to be able to offer much in the way of financial incentives. And I also wonder whether there is enough net inward migration of highly educated folks to convince Amazon that it can pull it off. But given all it has going for it, I'm surprised Detroit isn't more often in the conversation as a potential relocation site.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 6:22 PM
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cabasse cabasse is offline
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Originally Posted by ATLswede View Post
My gut says it will come down to Atlanta and Boston. The most important criteria are allegedly transit, proximity to quality higher education, cost of living, and availability of large tracts for development. Also, let's not forget that the whole point of this exercise is to give them an East Coast presence.

Boston's educational institutions, public transit, and cultural amenities probably make it the front runner (assuming they are willing to open their collective wallets). The only knocks against it would be cost of living, dinky airport, and cold weather.

Atlanta has a fairly big advantage in its airport. Its transit system is not extensive, but it at least has the bones of a solid system, it just needs expanding. And the educational institutions are quite good, even if they are not on the same level as Boston. I suspect Georgia will be willing to throw more money at Amazon and we have bigger parcels available, but I still think this thing is Boston's to lose. If they eff it up, we'll probably next in line.

Cost of living and availability of large contiguous parcels for development in a desirable area probably exclude Chicago, Philly and DC, even though their transit systems and educational institutions are top notch.

Lack of transit would all but disqualify Nashville and Charlotte, and TN does not have particularly good schools (though NC does).

Denver doesn't make the cut if the stated goal is to have an East Coast presence (it's a 3 hour flight, as opposed to 4.5 hours from Seattle). It also doesn't have the same level of educational institutions. No disrespect to CU, CSU, and University of Denver, but they pale in comparison to Boston (MIT, Harvard, UMass, Amherst +many other) and Atlanta (Emory, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, UGA + many others). Dallas also isn't exactly East Coast, it's transit is even weaker than Charlotte, and the educational institutions, while good, are not at the same level (yes, UT is a great school, but the combo of UT, SMU, and Texas A&M does not stack up IMO).

I have also gone ahead and written off the entire state of FL because I suspect Bezos is smart enough to realize that Miami is going to be largely under water in the next 30-50 years and there aren't really any other cities that have any of the other stated criteria.
i agree with a lot of this, but philly does have schuylkill yards, and dallas has definitively better transit than charlotte... (and arguably better coverage than marta, even)
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 12:53 PM
ATLswede ATLswede is offline
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i agree with a lot of this, but philly does have schuylkill yards, and dallas has definitively better transit than charlotte... (and arguably better coverage than marta, even)
Both good points. I had only ever seen/ridden the dinky little streetcar in Dallas and didn't realize it connected to commuter rail.

As impressive and transformative as Schuylkill Yards will be for Philly, it's nowhere near enough to accommodate Amazon's proposed plans. Current plans call for about 2.8 million sf of eventual office (presumably some of which has already been reserved). And parks and other design features knock a few acres off the 14 acre footprint. You'll recall that Amazon is hoping for space to accommodate 8 million sf, roughly 2.5 times what Schuylkill Yards will provide. On top of that, Philly is a bit more expensive than Boston or Atlanta.

But your basic point is right. Maybe Philly lands in the Top 3 and is even ahead of ATL or Boston. Dallas is probably Top 5, but I don't see it in the Top 3. Of course, if I knew how to predict what Bezos was thinking I'd be very rich and wouldn't be wasting time on internet forums...
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2017, 5:58 AM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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Originally Posted by ATLswede View Post
Detroit is an interesting Dark Horse (and Minneapolis probably should be on the list of Dark Horse candidates too). Clearly COL is attractive and there are great schools close by in UM, MSU and Chicago not too far away. The transit system is there and the city has "great bones" if that's not an offensive way to describe the plentiful and gorgeous historic (but now dilapidated) buildings. I wonder if Detroit and Michigan, only a few years removed from bankruptcy, are going to be able to offer much in the way of financial incentives. And I also wonder whether there is enough net inward migration of highly educated folks to convince Amazon that it can pull it off. But given all it has going for it, I'm surprised Detroit isn't more often in the conversation as a potential relocation site.
The main problem with Detroit is that it has, in effect, no transit. There's no commuter rail, light rail or BRT. There's only a one mile monorail downtown and a 3 mile long streetcar that runs in a straight line back and forth from downtown to the New Center Area.

I know a lot of folks in Atlanta are frustrated with MARTA, but compared to what Detroit has, it's the greatest transit system in the world.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 3:15 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Georgia Globe Design News has identified eleven potential sites for Amazon including some that I had not thought of and some that I don't think would work that well. Here's five of them.


The Stitch





South Downtown




Tech Square West




Arts Center




Armour Yards



https://wdanielanderson.wordpress.co...or-amazon-hq2/
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 6:37 PM
Pemgin Pemgin is offline
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Arts Center makes a lot of sense.
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 7:57 PM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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Well damn. And this is just the beginning...

Christie, Lawmakers Plan to Offer Amazon $5 Billion Tax Break

http://observer.com/2017/09/christie...ion-tax-break/

Gov. Chris Christie and legislative leaders will offer tax breaks worth $5 billion to Amazon if it builds its second headquarters in New Jersey, a plan that would expand a controversial subsidy program.

The Legislature’s top Democrats and Republicans announced Wednesday that they back Christie’s plan to loosen restrictions on the Grow NJ program, carving out new exceptions for “transformational projects” such as the Amazon headquarters. Under a proposed bill, Amazon could receive $10,000 for each job it created each year for a decade, a rate that could cost the state $5 billion over the life of the project if Amazon lives up to its promise to create up to 50,000 jobs wherever it goes, according to a letter to Christie from legislative leaders. New Jersey has awarded more than $8 billion in economic subsidies since Christie took office in 2010.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 9:45 PM
Pemgin Pemgin is offline
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Yeah, but companies are moving from New Jersey, not to it. Where in New Jersey would even be appealing?
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  #13  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 12:54 AM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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Yeah, but companies are moving from New Jersey, not to it. Where in New Jersey would even be appealing?
The main problem with New Jersey is that it doesn't have a big city of its own (there's Newark, but it's technically a part of NYC).

Other than that, for Amazon's purposes, it checks all of the boxes. Plus, it's strategically located along the eastern seaboard with easy access to all of the big cities (Philly, NYC, Boston, DC). In fact, it would probably be easier to attract talent there versus many of the other places that are submitting bids (Cleveland, Milwaukee, Birmingham, Buffalo, St. Louis, etc.).

But with NJ proposing such generous incentives, they've basically raised the bar for every other city that's competing. The vast majority of cities / states can't afford to match or best NJ's offer without breaking the bank (Atlanta / Georgia being one of the few exceptions).
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  #14  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 2:38 PM
Atlanta3000 Atlanta3000 is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17 View Post
Well damn. And this is just the beginning...

Christie, Lawmakers Plan to Offer Amazon $5 Billion Tax Break

http://observer.com/2017/09/christie...ion-tax-break/

Gov. Chris Christie and legislative leaders will offer tax breaks worth $5 billion to Amazon if it builds its second headquarters in New Jersey, a plan that would expand a controversial subsidy program.

The Legislature’s top Democrats and Republicans announced Wednesday that they back Christie’s plan to loosen restrictions on the Grow NJ program, carving out new exceptions for “transformational projects” such as the Amazon headquarters. Under a proposed bill, Amazon could receive $10,000 for each job it created each year for a decade, a rate that could cost the state $5 billion over the life of the project if Amazon lives up to its promise to create up to 50,000 jobs wherever it goes, according to a letter to Christie from legislative leaders. New Jersey has awarded more than $8 billion in economic subsidies since Christie took office in 2010.
Mark one state off the competition list - NJ. Clearly NJ didn't have conversations with Amazon prior to the RFP. If they had, NJ would have already passed the tax incentive bill. For Gov. Chris Christie to do a PR move like this is a clear sign of being a desperado.

Now hear how Mayor Kasim Reed responded to this development:

Quote:
"The way that we got to those wins was by being modest, keeping our mouths shut, and working in quiet," Reed said. "You won't hear me talking a lot about (the Amazon HQ2)."
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  #15  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 3:50 PM
Ant131531 Ant131531 is offline
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Mark one state off the competition list - NJ. Clearly NJ didn't have conversations with Amazon prior to the RFP. If they had, NJ would have already passed the tax incentive bill. For Gov. Chris Christie to do a PR move like this is a clear sign of being a desperado.

Now hear how Mayor Kasim Reed responded to this development:
If there's a city/state that knows how to get companies, it's Atlanta/Georgia. I mean, it's the reason why Atlanta is top 3 in both absolute and percentage annual job growth. We get so many relocations...many you almost never hear about because of how quietly it's done behind the scenes.

I truly believe Atlanta is top 5 in the running. If they do this right, find a good location, can successfully guide Amazon away from our traffic issues, get serious about rail in the city, by this time next year, we should be talking about what Atlanta will be like in 10 years post Amazon.
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  #16  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 4:19 PM
Atlanta3000 Atlanta3000 is offline
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If there's a city/state that knows how to get companies, it's Atlanta/Georgia. I mean, it's the reason why Atlanta is top 3 in both absolute and percentage annual job growth. We get so many relocations...many you almost never hear about because of how quietly it's done behind the scenes.

I truly believe Atlanta is top 5 in the running. If they do this right, find a good location, can successfully guide Amazon away from our traffic issues, get serious about rail in the city, by this time next year, we should be talking about what Atlanta will be like in 10 years post Amazon.
smArTaLlone nailed it when he correlated the Atlanta Business Chronicle article that was published 1 month prior to Amazon's RFP. The parallels are just too similar. Not to mention Selig planning construction on 1105 West Peachtree, Portman's West Peachtree project, Dewberry partnering with an ex-Tishman Speyer executive to market his Midtown properties and the $1 Billion Gulch development. I think we have this.

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...-prospect.html
Quote:
Atlanta’s commercial real estate business is buzzing over the prospect of a 500,000 to 600,000 square-foot office project — and the mystery company behind it.
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  #17  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 10:04 PM
Omaharocks Omaharocks is offline
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^

Don't forget about the huge Newtown development buyup of land/buildings in south downtown...
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  #18  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 2:12 AM
montydawg montydawg is offline
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Yeah, but companies are moving from New Jersey, not to it. Where in New Jersey would even be appealing?
Haha, I live in Manhattan and young people don't want to work in New Jersey, let alone visit New Jersey. Jersey city has the best chance of anything in the state of landing this. It has subway lines that go straight into Manhattan . One advantage is salaries are a tad lower here in tech because there is a glut of people who want to live in NYC and are willing to scrape by. I find the IT salaries here aren't great.
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Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 2:58 AM
arjay57 arjay57 is offline
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Haha, I live in Manhattan and young people don't want to work in New Jersey, let alone visit New Jersey. Jersey city has the best chance of anything in the state of landing this. It has subway lines that go straight into Manhattan .
What about some place like Hoboken? We've got some young friends who live there and I gather that it's fairly trendy.

Personally I still think Atlanta has a great chance for landing this.
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  #20  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 12:07 PM
skyscraperpage17 skyscraperpage17 is offline
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Originally Posted by montydawg View Post
Haha, I live in Manhattan and young people don't want to work in New Jersey, let alone visit New Jersey. Jersey city has the best chance of anything in the state of landing this. It has subway lines that go straight into Manhattan . One advantage is salaries are a tad lower here in tech because there is a glut of people who want to live in NYC and are willing to scrape by. I find the IT salaries here aren't great.
I would think anything other than Manhanttan would underwhelm any New Yorker (not just New Jersey).
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