Q West (Les Soeurs de la Visitation Redevelopment) | ?m | U/C

[Dado]

All right, here we go...

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

‘Love-in or mushroom cloud’
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Love+mu...767/story.html
Plans for former convent to be unveiled tonight

BY MARIA COOK, THE OTTAWA CITIZENMARCH 9, 2010 11:02 PM


When Ashcroft Homes unveils its proposal for the Sisters of Visitation site in Westboro tonight, “it will either be a love-in or there will be a mushroom cloud,” says Paul Rothwell, Ashcroft’s director of planning and development.

He got that wrong. It was neither. I would say that a fair proportion were impressed, but a lot weren't.

Already, Councillor Christine Leadman, who has seen an image of what is planned for 114 Richmond Rd., says: “It looks institutional. It looks like a fortress. The density is much higher than I feel comfortable with.”

It didn't look too bad, but the cross-sections were admittedly on the nasty side.

Ashcroft will present plans at a public meeting from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. at St. George’s Church, 415 Piccadilly Ave.

“We think the complex is going to be a marvelous blend of open space and built form,” Rothwell says.

The 100-year-old former convent will be restored and maintained at “enormous” cost, he says.

A series of public paths will connect Richmond Road and Byron Avenue and there will be 12 outdoor courtyards along the way.

Ya, not quite. Not all of them were "along the way".

Ashcroft will work to save mature trees and the buildings will be set back farther than required by zoning from adjacent Leighton Terrace backyards.

“To do all of that, we’re asking for something in return,” Rothwell says. “We’re asking for some floor space and some building height to be approved here.”

He did not specify height or number of units, but Leadman says the plan calls for two condo towers on Richmond Road of 11 storeys and eight storeys and a five-storey building on Byron Avenue.

As I wrote above, it's a single 11-storey building on Richmond, an 8 within the site, and a pair of 5s further back but not really on Byron, though they are connected together over another arch.

The buildings continue in stepped storeys across the Richmond Road frontage, travelling over a two-storey arched portal for pedestrians and cars.

Alain Miguelez was there and this feature they were not expecting.

“It’s not open anymore,” Leadman says. “It’s a box-like environment.”

Compared to the Exchange, or Westboro Station PI, this isn't a box. The stepping back on levels 6-8 could be a bit better, but I think that was to accommodate the green roofs.

Rothwell disagrees and calls the portal a “fabulous” feature. “When people walk through they’ll have this feeling that they’re entering an enclave. You find yourself standing in this enormous outdoor plaza with the convent to one side, and all redone with (a) restaurant … with this elaborate landscaping.”

I'd like to see some more renderings before passing any further judgement, but I think he's overselling this because the convent really is to one side, so it's the courtyard/plaza that people will see and which would be the attractor, not the convent (for better or worse). Perhaps if a restaurant or pub or café opens into the arch or something (say, a patio), it might be more inviting.

Usually, condos are designed to keep the public out, he said.

“We’re doing just the opposite. We’re inviting the public in.”

Leadman says some residents will be unhappy about a road into the complex crossing the Byron Street path.

“You’re adding an automotive element to a pathway and taking away green space and pedestrian space.”

There's a narrow laneway street, Shannon, that they have rights to use. It exits onto Hilson. The Byron crossing is to avoid pissing off those neighbours.

Rothwell says “the planners at the city and transportation people at the city have given the thumbs-up to an entrance off Byron.”

That was not what Alain Miguelez said tonight. I think it's preferred to Shannon, but a 'thumbs-up' it was not.

There was also a lot of discussion about the "public" path through the property. The City is all very risk-averse with these things, and they absolutely don't want to take ownership of it, either, even though the people from Ashcroft said they'd give it to the City. Can't add to the City's operations budget, after all, even if some 500 units with all the accompanying property tax revenue are being added in 5 acres.

The city’s Ottawa Built Heritage Advisory Committee will hold a meeting on March 18 to consider heritage designation of the site. A report by the city’s heritage planning office is expected to recommend designation under the provincial Heritage Act.

Rothwell says designation is not a concern. “We’ve been working collaboratively with everyone involved.”

Lorne Cutler, of the Hampton-Iona community group, says residents are looking forward to seeing the plans. “Height, density, and traffic impacts are the main concerns. We hope that Ashcroft is going to give the community a chance to respond in a meaningful way before submitting plans to City Hall.”

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[waterloowarrior]

The complete opposite of a fortress’

Architect unveils Ashcroft Homes’ proposal for site of former convent

BY KRISTY NEASE , THE OTTAWA CITIZENMARCH 10, 2010 10:57 PMBE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/complet...336/story.html


OTTAWA — At St. George’s Church Wednesday night, about 200 people turned up for the unveiling of Ashcroft Homes’ proposal for the former site of Les Soeurs de la Visitation D’Ottawa in Westboro.

Head architect Roderick Lahey, who has been working on the project since the fall, led a slide presentation detailing Ashcroft’s vision, which he calls “the complete opposite of a fortress” — rebutting Kitchissippi Councillor Christine Leadman’s earlier critique of the plan.

The proposal calls for lining Richmond Road with a 12-storey mixed-use building and an arched entrance to a courtyard, the chapel itself, a hotel and condominium that reaches nine storeys and a five-storey Byron Avenue seniors’ residence, also with an arched entrance to the interior of the site.

The front of the Richmond Road building will feature ground-floor retail space with commercial accommodations inside reaching up to two storeys. Condominiums will make up the third to the 12th floors.

In the former nunnery, the bottom two floors will be open to the community, while the third will be offered up as commercial space.

The hotel, meanwhile, will take up six storeys, with the top three floors dedicated to residential use.

The seniors’ site will accommodate multiple uses, with amenities, a retirement residence, suites and condominiums.

The top floor of the hotel and condominium building, as well as the top six storeys of the retail/commercial condominium building and the top three floors of the seniors’ residence, have been set back, creating a stair-like profile that makes the space feel more open.

Various seating areas and a courtyard will dot the inside of the space, as well as a long pathway and green space lining the Leighton Terrace-facing border of the site.

Underground parking is planned for below much of the five-acre site, with entrances off of Richmond Rd. and Byron Ave.

Before the slideshow began, Leadman urged residents to participate in the discussion.

“Please don’t be afraid to speak up,” she told the packed room. “This is your opportunity to speak up.”

During the question-and-answer period after the presentation, some residents expressed their concern over the Byron Avenue entrance to the site, which will be open to vehicles that need access to the underground parking ramp located just inside the site.

The proposed entrance cuts across a city-owned path.

The Richmond Road entrance will also be open to vehicle traffic, but Lahey said only certain vehicles would be allowed inside.

The circular courtyard would allow entry and exit.

In an earlier Citizen interview, Leadman characterized the proposed site as being “a box-like environment.”

At the unveiling Wednesday, Lahey countered that characterization by saying the concept is in keeping with the site’s history as a space for cloistered nuns. He also said the idea for portal entrances at Byron Avenue and Richmond Road were made with that concept in mind.

An existing zoning bylaw limits height in the space to about four storeys. To accommodate the proposed 12-storey condominium, Lahey said the site will allow for about 40 feet of space between buildings and the site’s borders instead of the required 25 feet, as well as the set-back method.

The city’s Ottawa Built Heritage Advisory Committee will hold a meeting March 18 to consider heritage designation of the site. A report by the city’s heritage planning office is expected to recommend designation under Ontario’s Heritage Act.

In a previous interview, Paul Rothwell, Ashcroft’s director of planning and development, said designation is not a concern. “We’ve been working collaboratively with everyone involved.”

Les Soeurs de la Visitation D’Ottawa listed the property, built in 1864, in August 2009. The cloistered nuns had occupied the site since 1913.

With files from Maria Cook

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[waterloowarrior]

[Dado]

The reason I'd made the earlier mistake about the Byron-side render is because I had this in my mind, where the arch is shown (on both streets) as a cutaway.




This is a perspective from Hilson Avenue, just beside the school. 111 & 101 Richmond are on the left and centre, respectively, with the 11-storey building centre-right and the convent right.




The façade along Leighton Terrace seen from across Richmond, roughly from Island Park.




Looking northwest past the convent to the high corner. The very edge of the arch to Richmond can be seen at the far right.




Looking roughly southwest across the courtyard turnaround at the convent.




This is the public path on the east side at the back of the Leighton Terrace properties looking at the 5-storey retirement residences. The space between the buildings is where the ramp access to the rear-area underground parking is located; it is accessed from the Byron-side courtyard.

[waterloowarrior]

some more images from the Citizen

[Davis137]

12 Stories in that location...good luck!

[ajldub]

The only big drawback I see to this is that the old convent is not visible from Richmond. I would prefer to see the condos in front of it stacked on top of the condos to the east. Then you would have a 15-20 story glass box, and you could make a nice entrance up to the convent.

They are really asking for a lot of density here, though.

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by ajldub

The only big drawback I see to this is that the old convent is not visible from Richmond. I would prefer to see the condos in front of it stacked on top of the condos to the east. Then you would have a 15-20 story glass box, and you could make a nice entrance up to the convent.

They are really asking for a lot of density here, though.

The apparent reason why they aren't putting the height to the east but instead in front of the convent, on top of maximizing the retail frontage on Richmond, is because Ashcroft seems to have made a genuine effort to minimize the impact on it's Leighton Terrace neighbours. The only building directly backing them is only 5 stories, and nicely set back by the pathway.

I definately agree that ideally the convent should be visable from Richmond - it's what I envisioned when I first heard the site was for sale. That having been said, I think that density here is a great thing, and I understand Ashcroft's need to be able to maximize use of the site: it did not come cheap from Les Soeurs, and it will not be cheap to update and maintain the Convent building.

I think what I like most about the plan is the proposed mix of uses, which is just about ideal for the site.

[waterloowarrior]

What time of day/year are those shadows from? ....

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

What time of day/year are those shadows from? ....

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...2&postcount=61

[ajldub]

I don't think living on Leighton Terrace will ever be the same again, whether the building on the corner is 5, 10 or 15 stories. The convent is one of the very few Grade-A heritage buildings in this part of the city. To wrap it with condos is to take the daily enjoyment of it away from thousands of passersby. And that's the real value of heritage buildings. I say 20 storey glass box, and we get to see the convent from the street.

[Dado]

I really hope this land swap idea goes somewhere because that way it would be possible, I think, to open up the site a bit more.

The building(s) that would occupy the schoolyard could be built higher than the buildings at the back of the convent grounds since shadowing of neighbours would be less of an issue, though stepping down towards Hilson would be required.

With that done, the archway feature could be moved to the Patricia intersection and enlarged (perhaps one central arch and two smaller side arches), with the courtyard occupying the current entrance and straddling the current school/convent property line. Garage access would be here too, but it could involve a right-turn into the schoolyard and down that way. An archway in this location would offer better views of the convent, though I admittedly don't know what is the best angle to see it from - but from the current proposed location I doubt one could see it at all. They could also drop the archway altogether and just have two separate buildings.

Anyway, the point being that if they had the schoolyard they'd be able to do a lot more with respect to opening the site up from Richmond.

Note also that they need not give up the entire back grounds of the convent, since those grounds are larger than the schoolyard. They could keep a strip along the Byron corridor (and the through path along the east side) for something like what they propose to have there but from an extension of Shannon; in this case Shannon would be serving far fewer units than does the proposed Byron access.

[citizen j]

I agree with ajldub that it would be preferable to have better visibility of the convent from the street. But that would only happen by giving the developer approval for more height elsewhere and that would create a significant roadblock with the community and the city. As it stands, this plan is a decent compromise with the limits of the site and one that invites rather than showcases -- the convent's there, but available/visible in a gradual reveal rather than presented front-and-centre. More Barcelona's Gothic Quarter, less Washington's Mall. Now, that only works, of course, if access to those courtyards remains public.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by ajldub

The convent is one of the very few Grade-A heritage buildings in this part of the city. To wrap it with condos is to take the daily enjoyment of it away from thousands of passersby.

The convent is currently wrapped with a concrete wall along Richmond, so wrapping it with condos is not really taking anything away.

That said, I think it would be nice if the convent was visible from Richmond... if a land swap took place between the school board and Ashcroft, the convent could be framed with buildings, a courtyard in front of it. But such a land swap would reqire open space to be created elsewhere for a new school yard.

Right now, Ashcroft is asking for a lot of suff on that one site; to get some more open space, something's going to have to go.

[waterloowarrior]

This project seems like a great opportunity for the City to use a Section 37 agreement...e.g.we'll give you the density if you preserve these key heritage features, put in this public art feature, and/or bury the hydro lines (just look at the front of the Piccadilly for an example of the negative impacts of hydro lines/poles on the streetscape).

[waterloowarrior]

ctv ottawa report (video)
cbc ottawa also has a report

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

This to me is merely Westboro's version of the Lord Lansdowne and surrounding mid-to-highrises.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by citizen j

...... More Barcelona's Gothic Quarter, less Washington's Mall. Now, that only works, of course, if access to those courtyards remains public.

From an Ashcroft development in Westboro to Barcelona's Gothic Quarter - the comparison kind of takes my breath away!

[jcollins]

Originally Posted by ajldub

The convent is one of the very few Grade-A heritage buildings in this part of the city. To wrap it with condos is to take the daily enjoyment of it away from thousands of passersby.

From those driving by yes. It will encourage those that want to see it to walk by it and come into the courtyard, or stop, park and come in. That will help surrounding businesses too with extra foot traffic.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by ajldub

I don't think living on Leighton Terrace will ever be the same again, whether the building on the corner is 5, 10 or 15 stories. The convent is one of the very few Grade-A heritage buildings in this part of the city. To wrap it with condos is to take the daily enjoyment of it away from thousands of passersby. And that's the real value of heritage buildings. I say 20 storey glass box, and we get to see the convent from the street.

So then the question is, what do you do with the open space in front of the heritage building? If it's too large, you are almost certainly condemning that space to be dead space because there isn't yet enough of an urban fabric to take you past it. So, it introduces yet another breach in the continuity of Richmond's sidewalk activity, adding to the breaches at the Hilson school yard, the Bank Note property, and (for now) the used car lots between Leighton and Island Park on both sides of richmond. Yes, those will redevelop one day, but (a) should you count on that to build today's fabric?, (b) do you want a fabric with so many holes?, (c) is 20 storeys an urban form you want at this location?

If it's a smaller space, then you're going in the direction of establishing a framed view. If it's an archway as they propose, then you are adding an element of enclosure to the space that gives it a different character and definition. As was said by another poster, the key is to maintain public access to the courtyard spaces. And if that happens, then you can have spaces of Byward Market quality if designed right.

To wrap it with condos is to create another type of space, one that invites exploration and discovery. The footprint of these condos is as much about creating space within the buildings (retail, residential) for the street, as it is about creating spaces with building edges. So, the courtyard approach is a very urban response, a legitimate one and one that has merit when you take into account the building's history as a cloistered monastery. Also, it allows the distinction between the hustle and bustle of a busy mainstreet and the secluded intimacy of a former monastery's courtyard. Making a space "public" doesn't mean clearing everything around it. Remember the debate about widening Metcalfe to get a larger and more centered view of Parliament.