PHILADELPHIA | 709 Chestnut Street | 327 FT | 27 FLOORS

[Human Scale]

Originally Posted by Scottydont

Long time lurker, no architectural background, just an enthusiast.

With that said, am I the only one bummed out that this parking lot is gonna be gone? Anytime I'm going to the nicer restaurants down in the area, I tend to park here.

I like the garage on the NE corner of 8th & Chestnut. One of the first to introduce me to credit card in, credit card out - so fast!

But be careful mentioning parking around these parts. While we all claim to be new urbanists to a degree, some on this forum think parking has no place in new development. I mentioned East Market not capitalizing on its location and offering four levels of parking under what equates to an outdoor mall attracting a lot of suburbanites, and they just weren't having it.

[Arch+Eng]

Originally Posted by Human Scale

But be careful mentioning parking around these parts...

Wise words..You may get a hit put out on you for stating the P word around here.

Originally Posted by Scottydont

Long time lurker, no architectural background, just an enthusiast.

With that said, am I the only one bummed out that this parking lot is gonna be gone? Anytime I'm going to the nicer restaurants down in the area, I tend to park here.

Yea, I'm really bummed that Fergies parking lot is going. I literally park there every time I can't find parking on the street (99% of the time). Well, no more trips to Lucky Strikes.

I am happy about the building replacing it though.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Boston population is ~650k. I am so tired of hearing Boston's name in any city talk comparing to Philly. It simply can not compete.

Boston and Baltimore maybe...

agreed. DC, Baltimore and Boston are all less than half Philly's population and physical size. In terms of population, Philly is closest to San Antonio, Phoenix and San Diego. Don't think any of those 3 come close to Philly in terms of being "real" cities.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Boston population is ~650k. I am so tired of hearing Boston's name in any city talk comparing to Philly. It simply can not compete.

Boston and Baltimore maybe...

You're right, mea culpa. I originally looked at just cities with more than 1 million but then added Boston last second because people do like to compare it to Philly. To be fair, it does anchor a 4.5 million person metro area and has a combined statistical area larger than Philly's. Boston proper is only 48 square miles, so it's population number is skewed to the lower end. But I agree, Philly is world's ahead of Boston in every respect of what makes a city great.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Arch+Eng

Yea, I'm really bummed that Fergies parking lot is going. I literally park there every time I can't find parking on the street (99% of the time). Well, no more trips to Lucky Strikes.

There will be plenty of room for you and Figgy in the basement of East Market!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by br323206

We have less compared to what cities? NYC and Chicago? Sure.

When you look at just the other cities with over one million in population:

Boston has 13 in the 400-500 ft range.
Houston has 21.
LA has 12.
Phoenix has 2.
San Fran has 32.
San Antonio has 3.
San Diego has 13.
Dallas has 9.

The mean is 13. The median is 13. We have 19. So we actually have more buildings in that range than other major cities. We are only surpassed by Chicago, NYC, Houston, and San Francisco--and Houston's are spread out over a huge area with tons of surface parking in between.

There are more than that though.

Obviously NYC and Chicago have more in the 400-500 range than Philly.

NYC: 297
Chicago: 151
Miami: 50
San Francisco: 38
Houston: 32
Las Vegas: 32
Atlanta: 26
Philadelphia: 23
Boston: 22
Los Angeles: 21
Seattle: 20

However, Los Angeles and Seattle are building so much that they will likely pass Philadelphia in this metric, but Philadelphia has the potentially to surpass Atlanta and Las Vegas, which aren't building much in this range right now.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by br323206

You're right, mea culpa. I originally looked at just cities with more than 1 million but then added Boston last second because people do like to compare it to Philly. To be fair, it does anchor a 4.5 million person metro area and has a combined statistical area larger than Philly's. Boston proper is only 48 square miles, so it's population number is skewed to the lower end. But I agree, Philly is world's ahead of Boston in every respect of what makes a city great.

Let's give credit where credit is due: central Boston is VERY impressive by American standards; it's metro area is nearly the same size as ours, so it makes sense that the centers are equivalent in scale. I think Boston is a little too froo froo, and I prefer Philly, but I'd wager more visitors find central Boston more appealing and maybe even a little more impressive than Center City.

I think Boston in many ways offers Philadelphians an idea of the potential of our city if we could somehow do things better (starting with the politicians). If we had the resources and leadership sophistication that Boston has, Philadelphia would blow Boston out of the water. But as it stands, Boston does alot quite a bit better than we do. It's hard to get alot of good stuff done when you have Jannie Blackwell and Bob Brady constraining everything with their backward worldview.

[Human Scale]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

There will be plenty of room for you and Figgy in the basement of East Market!

I park at the Holiday Inn Express on Walnut. ..I know a guy...

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by summersm343

There are more than that though.

Obviously NYC and Chicago have more in the 400-500 range than Philly.

NYC: 297
Chicago: 151
Miami: 50
San Francisco: 38
Houston: 32
Las Vegas: 32
Atlanta: 26
Philadelphia: 23
Boston: 22
Los Angeles: 21
Seattle: 20

However, Los Angeles and Seattle are building so much that they will likely pass Philadelphia in this metric, but Philadelphia has the potentially to surpass Atlanta and Las Vegas, which aren't building much in this range right now.

Yeah I think Philly's "trophy" buildings are great, but I think there's a lot of spots that can be filled with good infill in the form of towers in this height range. That's what I meant with my original post. There are a huge amount of towers that are in the 250-350 ft. range or so that give good density, but I think it would be nice if those were a little taller on average, that's what I was trying to say.

[spoonman]

Originally Posted by 1487

agreed. DC, Baltimore and Boston are all less than half Philly's population and physical size. In terms of population, Philly is closest to San Antonio, Phoenix and San Diego. Don't think any of those 3 come close to Philly in terms of being "real" cities.

San Diego is by far the densest and has the best skyline of the 3 cities you mentioned (also has the most construction activity). That said, we know that Philly is larger than SD with a taller skyline. In fairness, SD has a height limit due to the airport, but I also know that Philly had a height limit for a long time.

Interesting fact...SD and Philly share high profile buildings by Helmut Jahn. Philly's are taller though.




Credit Matt Robinson from Metroscenes.com

[1487]

all of this proves we really need more development west of 20th street, east of broad and along both rivers. I think one thing that affects the number of modern towers in Philly vs a place like Atlanta is the HUGE stock of large industrial and class B office buildings that have been converted to residential in last 30 years. There were millions of sf of existing stock that was available for conversion. Newer cities wouldnt have had those conditions so ground up construction was much more likely.

[Insoluble]

Originally Posted by Human Scale

But be careful mentioning parking around these parts. While we all claim to be new urbanists to a degree, some on this forum think parking has no place in new development. I mentioned East Market not capitalizing on its location and offering four levels of parking under what equates to an outdoor mall attracting a lot of suburbanites, and they just weren't having it.

Originally Posted by Human Scale

When it comes to Olympics there are two people. Those who latch on to reports of negatives. Why, I don't know. And those who realize the costs, however extreme, are well worth it. Your ROI might not be in cash, but the return is certainly always greater than the initial investment.

So basically what I'm getting from your posts is that you like to portray anyone who disagrees with you as being some sort of crazy single minded fanatic. Is this your actual view of how the world is or just a clumsy rhetorical device?

[hammersklavier]

Please don't troll in this thread. You know who you are.

Posters who don't heed this sentence will find surprises in their inboxes.

[Human Scale]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

So basically what I'm getting from your posts is that you like to portray anyone who disagrees with you as being some sort of crazy single minded fanatic. Is this your actual view of how the world is or just a clumsy rhetorical device?

The first one is humor. The second one is truth.

[Philly Fan]

I can't see this article because I'm not a subscriber, but for those of you who are:

707 Chestnut St. building is bought and the air rights sold
Jan 15, 2016, 6:00am EST

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Let's give credit where credit is due: central Boston is VERY impressive by American standards; it's metro area is nearly the same size as ours, so it makes sense that the centers are equivalent in scale. I think Boston is a little too froo froo, and I prefer Philly, but I'd wager more visitors find central Boston more appealing and maybe even a little more impressive than Center City.

I think Boston in many ways offers Philadelphians an idea of the potential of our city if we could somehow do things better (starting with the politicians). If we had the resources and leadership sophistication that Boston has, Philadelphia would blow Boston out of the water. But as it stands, Boston does alot quite a bit better than we do. It's hard to get alot of good stuff done when you have Jannie Blackwell and Bob Brady constraining everything with their backward worldview.

Boston harbor is nice though. I love the way it looks when the skyscrapers butt right up to the water. Philly's little boat scene by the Delaware River Front pales in comparison. Rich or wealthy people like their boats.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

I can't see this article because I'm not a subscriber, but for those of you who are:

707 Chestnut St. building is bought and the air rights sold
Jan 15, 2016, 6:00am EST

I may be mistaken, but I don't think this has anything to do with this tower.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I may be mistaken, but I don't think this has anything to do with this tower.

Except perhaps for these words above the article's headline when you go to the linked page:

32 STORIES PROPOSED

and the fact that there is specific mention of the air rights being sold, in addition to the building (at least according to the article's headline). This is the building next door to 709, isn't it?

That's why I'd love to know what's actually in the article.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Except perhaps for these words above the article's headline when you go to the linked page:



and the fact that there is specific mention of the air rights being sold, in addition to the building (at least according to the article's headline). This is the building next door to 709, isn't it?

That's why I'd love to know what's actually in the article.

Unless there are going to be two 32 floor buildings side-by-side, I guess that they're expanding the footprint of this tower (or at least cantilevering over 707).

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Unless there are going to be two 32 floor buildings side-by-side, I guess that they're expanding the footprint of this tower (or at least cantilevering over 707).

Spoken like a true law partner.

YOU get me.